What NON-OBVIOUS stuff would you like to see in Revised?

[fuindordm]

Without harping to long on this...

This exactly highlights why I think the cleric needs to be weakened. Trying to make sure a scholar-cleric is painful, since balancing the armor and BAB with skills/spells only points out how much more powerful it is than the wizard/sorcerer. I'd been looking at this for a character in my game who is distinctly not a combat-minded character but is a cleric.

John [/B]

(Referring to scholar-cleric option)

The problem is that there's still this big imbalance between divine and arcane magic for armor. Priests, even scholar-priests, can take a level of fighter and get right back into their 'tank top'. Wizards, sorcerers, and bards can't.

I would *dearly* love to see them get rid of arcane failure altogether. If a wizard wants to (a) spend a high ability score on STR, and (b) spend a few feats, is it unbalancing for them to put on a suit of plate mail and be able to cast spells? It is unbalancing for a fighter/wizard, who is suffering in the magic department anyway, to wear a mithril breastplate and have a decent AC?

If you say 'yes', let me ask you this: would it be unbalancing if the shield spell didn't exist? If you get the heebie-jeebies, make the shield spell a shield bonus rather than a cover bonus, and reduce it to +4 but leave in the 'block magic missiles' feature.

Just a little rant. Sorry. I'm done now. First edition F/MU's could wear armor, grumble grumble.

And on the subject of a sorcerer, here's a funky idea--don't give them a spell list at all. Let them choose any spell in the game, but at +1 level for divine spells. After all, I bet there are sorcerers out there with celestial bloodlines...

--Ben

 

[Mort]

slight thread hijack

Changes:

3. The feat "Ambidexterity" should be true Ambidexterity, meaning you get full Strength bonus for the "off-hand" weapon. Since, you know, if you're truly Ambidextrous YOU DO NOT HAVE AN OFF-HAND.

-z

Sorry for the slight thread hijack – but ambidexterity is fine (and represents true ambidexterity) if you think about it this way:

You can use either hand equally well – so when using one weapon you can use either hand at full strength bonus.

When using 2 weapons you are dividing your attention and it’s impossible to use both hands equally. You can choose which hand (which weapon) gets the full strength bonus on any given round – but one of the two hands (because you are using both at once) only gets ½ strength.

Not sure if that’s the official interpretation, but that’s the way I play it.

As for what I hope they will change, here's my pipedream (as in 100% certainty it won't happen):

Get rid of permanent level draining. The -1 level mechanic is ok for sime items (give -1 on many skills etc.) but as soon as you get into actual level drain - it becomes an administrative nightmare.

Replace level drain with ability drain of the appropriate type (equally nasty but less of a head ache)

Well I can dream

 

[Nail]

Scale Toughness. Perhaps make it +1 hit point per level. Or +1 every odd numbered level.

How about 2+1/2 character levels. so that it still gives that oh so important boost at first level.

I've always wondered why this wosn't treated like casting podigy. That is, have the feat raise the "effective" Con of the character, but only with respect to hp. Say a +2 bonus to Con, but only used when determining how many hit points you have.

Otherwise th' feat is next to worthless, except as a PrC prereq.

 

[Apok]

I'll throw out something:

Weaken the cleric

Yeah, I love 'em, but everybody else has trouble matching them. The more divine feats and spells you add the worse it gets (since Clerics don't even have to research new spells, they just get them instantly once the GM allows the book). Good fighting, good armor, good spells, bonus domain abilities, bonus domain spells ...

thoughts?

John

As powerful as the Clerical class is, I still have trouble getting players to play 'em. Take away any of that power and you will literally have to revert to begging someone to be the cleric.

The biggest problem is the fact that most people think "walking band-aid" when they think of clerics, and this is not far from the truth. Sure, Clerics can buff themselves into melee powerhouses but what happens when your down to the bottom of the barrel on spells and your comerades are looking for some healing?

"Uhhh.. gee, guys, I really would like to heal you and all but, uh, I kinda used all my spells on myself to fight the BBEG and, uh, well... Hey, c'mon guys, put the swords down! Let's talk! Really! I promise I wont do it again! AAAAAAAHHH!"

The primary purpouse of a Cleric is to heal, and if they aren't doing it (for whatever reason), then why hasn't the party booted 'em out yet?

"Oh, so you're a cleric of a mighty War God, eh? You can kick butt with the best of 'em, eh? Okay, can you heal? No? It's not in your God's editcs to heal people? Okay, thanks for your time. Next! Hmmm... God of Death and Destruction, huh? Okay, so you're good at killing things, what's your policy on healing magic? You don't use it? Against your God's edicts. Okay, thankyou. Next!"

 

[Victim]

With a couple of CLW wands, a cleric can easily heal and do other things. And killing bad guys quickly is preemptive healing.

Still, in one respect, the cleric needs to be more powerful than other classes in order to both fulfill its main group roll and still be an interesting character to play. If a cleric is in a different role, or if there are many clerics so the burden on each cleric is reduced, then there may be problems. When I was playing my cleric, I noticed that my character was much more powerful when 3 fighting characters didn't show up, and we had a 4 person group again.

 

[Oni]

The above reason I suggested getting rid of the spontanous sub of cure and inflict and giving clerics a version of the lay on hands powers That way their healing is seperate from their spells (i'd reduce the number of spells per day) so they can use their spells as they see fit without having to worry about saving everything for healing the party since that would be a seperate ability.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Something I'd like to see, but won't
Will ST bonus switched to Charisma (strength of will), Initiative bonus switched to Wisdom (perceptiveness and readiness).

Brilliant!

You've got a really good idea there. Cha is self-awareness, after all. And Wis is actually Perception. Check the SRD.

Good show, Plane Sailing.

EDIT: (reads more of the thread) And thanks for the explanation, Mort. That makes perfect sense to me.

-z

 

[Kichwas]

If they do that they should also get rid of the illiteracy disadvantage.

Personally I think -EVERYONE-- should get illiteracy and then get 2 more skill points.

Even Wizards.

An illiterate Wizard might perhaps memorize with picture books, turtle shells, bones, and so on.

Spellbook sharing might then be dependant on sharing on language and a means of reading the material.

But then I don't like the Wizard class to begin with. It's just all wrong for arcane magic.

One more for my list: Get rid of Common and Undercommon. You don't need them. Even in your average Greyhawk and FR campaign the PCs spend 80%+ of their time in one linguistic region anyway. You should have the -option- of them going somewhere they can't speak the local language however. Even in those worlds, and even on their main contenents.

A person from Waterdeep should NOT automatically understand someone from Halruaa.

Nor should someone from The Great Kingdom automatically understand someone from Ekbir.

At present though, A person from Dyvers can understand a person from Arabel... and that's just silly.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Other hopes:

Every single creature in the MM has its own picture (and examples where the artist blatantly doesn't follow the description either need a new picture or a new description! Morhg, anyone?)

Simple d20 rules for complex skill-based interactions (as several have suggested above).

Simple, clarified, easily understandable rules for encounter distance, spotting, who gets surprise etc. Clarify when to use Spot, when to use Listen etc.

 

[Droogie]

I'll chime in with my 2cp on Sorcerors. Why they don't have Diplomacy and Intimidate, I don't understand.

After playing a Druid, I think the Summon Nature's Ally lists are a little weak. In most cases, a Wiz/Sor/Clr can get a templated version of the same creature with the same level spell. Why should they get a better animal than a druid with the same level spell?

Better/easier/more useful counterspelling. The rules, as they are, might as well not even be in the book.

More fun stuff to do with Alchemy.

I can understand why people want better Cha skills for sorcerors, but I think many were left off his list because they weren't right for the class.

When you think of a sorceror, do you think of a great diplomat? A fantastic trainer of animals? A person who hangs out in bars to suck up all the gossip? I see a person with a high Cha doing this stuff, sure, but maybe not a sorceror.

Intimidate, I can see. Bluff too: I can see sorcerors with a reputation to be tricky and suspicious...but maybe not a great juggler and singer.

Alchemy-- do you mean doing more with it, or having more stuff to make? Dragon 301 and Tome&Blood have some interesting concoctions to cook up, but I am hoping the revised books will have a bigger list of alchemical items.