D&D 2E What PF2E means for D&D5E

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[ccs]

So... what do you think PF2E means for 5E? Will it steal away a lot of the market? Is it a serious challenger to 5E's throne?

I think PF2 will mean as much to 5e as PF, or any other fantasy RPG (including past editions of D&D), currently does.
One more option.

Are any of its ideas worth pilfering for 5E games?

Probably. Depending upon what you're looking for, most other games have something to offer someone. Way too early to tell though. Wait until August, follow the play-test, & take a look at the final product before deciding.

Or will PF2E come and go without much ado, as Starfinder did?

Not at all.

Starfinder's arrival didn't affect anything. It didn't have an existing player base. It's essentially "Hey, if you're interested in space games, or just looking for something else, here's Starfinder to consider."
Best case: You find a new game you enjoy.
Worst case: You never realize that SF exists.
If it disappears tomorrow? It won't change anything. Space games - other than Star Wars - come & go all the time.

PF2 on the other hand is exactly like any edition change in D&D. The very large & interested existing player base has very real concerns about it.

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

Just because they say Pathfinder 2e won’t be based on D&D 5e, doesn’t mean there aren’t design trends that will influence it. Heck, D&D 5e wasn’t based on Castles & Crusades, but there are still parallels.

From the wiki thread over on the Pathfinder board they've said that PF2E will feature a unified single bonus to rolls and less reliance on magic items in order to scale. So I agree that there seems to definitely be some inspiration here and there. Which overall I think is a good thing for games to learn from each other and continue iterating ideas.

I love 5e and I'm going to stick with it for the foreseeable future, but I am excited and curious to see how this turns out.

 

[Tony Vargas]

It would be hilarious if PF2e ended up looking like D&D 4e.

I thought it was amusing when PF monster stat blocks started looking like 4e blocks, just shaded a different color.

But I wouldn't expect anything but such a coincidental cosmetic similarity. Reptilian races with boobs, maybe. Outragously oversize weapons, perhaps.

First of all, I'm not surprised in the least that PF2 isn't building off of 5e...

Looking at the little they've said about PF2 so far, basically it seems to me like they're going the same direction they went with Starfinder, but even farther.

Streamline action economy, build archetypes into classes (like 5e's subclasses), more starting stuff based on Race (HP, other?), attempting to simplify Combat (clean up iterative attacks, increasing the cost of spell casting).

Maybe they're not building off 5e, but is sure sounds like they're building /towards/ 5e. Maybe parallel to it.

I do wonder though how people who screamed about cash grabs of changing D&D editions will defend this, that will be fun at least.

WotC D&D changed eds (at least, partial eds) in '99, 2003, 2008, 2010 (essentials), 2012 (next) and 2014 (5e). Now, Next was obviously no cash-grab, but contrast that record with PF, just starting to roll rev for the first time 9 years after it first hit the shelves.

Everyone and their mom knows what D&D is; but only people that already play can tell you the different between D&D, PF, and, say, 13th Age. To everyone else, it's all D&D.

To be fair, those prettymuch /are/ all D&D. They all draw heavily from D&D's legacy. They have clerics that stand behind fighters and glowy-heal them, dungeons full of traps the Thief is prettymuch there just to find & disarm, dragons, treasure, magic items, class/level/exp, hps/AC/saves, etc.

Plus, they're all three d20 games. They're different games, from different companies, but the same core system, a core system based on D&D.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I think it will be good for the field. I don't see WotC being interested in shifting away from a "casual/new" player/DM focus (which is actually a good business plan). Even given that Enworld commentators aren't particularly representative of anything, they do indicate there is a market for games more complex than 5e and less complex than PF 1e. I can only speak for myself, but I prefer not to get too invested in something from a company that may be "fly by night", and Paizo has a proven track record (plus one of the better settings). <br>
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They are betting they will get more new players/DM's (probably especially DM's) then they will lose. As a company, they come across as very positive (which I like), so I doubt they will alienate much of their fanbase, and if sales aren't good, they will be in a good spot to regression to PF 1.5 (1e with anything popular from 2e reengineered, which will very likely be fighters, rogues, monks, and clerics, which I think even the most diehard PF 1e fan will admit need some work).<br><br>Edit:  forgot the worth stealing from bit.  My setting's pantheon is a mix of 4e's and PF's (and all the gods are ascendants in a Star Stone meets malazan meets Piers Anthony meets Fred Saberhagen mix), so I will continue to steal that from them.  I find it easier to convert 4e monsters to 5e than early 3x monsters, because 4e (like 5e) tended to distill them down to one big thing, and I can take that work from there (even if the one big thing doesn't work in 5e).  It seems like Pathfinder was (slowly) moving in that direction anyway, and I expect 2e will continue that trend.  They have a rich monster list and a tendency to publish bestiaries every other year, so soon enough there will be stuff to steal.

 

[Lanefan]

So apparently Pathfinder 2nd Edition has been announced. The biggest news for me is that it WON'T be based on D&D5E. A bit of a risky move, if you ask me, because now D&D players (the most sizable group of TTRPG players) have less reason to buy PF2E books (unlike in 2008, when PF was compatible with 3.5E).

PF has a big enough market share now to independently support a new edition, unlike when PF1 came out as a brand new thing trying to build off 3.x D&D.

So... what do you think PF2E means for 5E? Will it steal away a lot of the market? Is it a serious challenger to 5E's throne?

My guess is there'll be a dip in 5e sales on PF2's release but it'll be just that - a temporary dip while PF2 claims the sales crown for a quarter or two.

Are any of its ideas worth pilfering for 5E games?

Just about any system has pilfer-worthy ideas to add to any other system; I expect PF2 will continue this.

Or will PF2E come and go without much ado, as Starfinder did?

Comparing PF2 to Starfinder isn't quite a fair comparison. Starfinder, while somewhat based off PF1's system, is a new thing; and still trying to establish itself. We won't really be able to assess its relative level of success for another decade or so.

That, and space or sci-fi based RPGs have never sold as well as fantasy-based RPGs, the best attempts of the various Star Wars RPG iterations notwithstanding.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

This sounds like an opportunity to me. I'm going to publish my own game, Sorcerers and Swashbucklers, an OGL clone of Pathfinder 1E. I'm going to capture all the disgruntled Pathfinder players who don't like PF2E!

 

[Azzy]

First of all, I'm not surprised in the least that PF2 isn't building off of 5e, because PF was born out of the WotC Paizo falling out over publishing deals for Dungeon and Dragon magazine, and Paizo having special license to use all of 3.5 without having to pay any royalty or follow any of the OGL rules that 3pp had to follow. I could be wrong about that, but that's what I've understood.

Incorrect. WotC had extended Paizo's license so that Paizo could finish the Savage Tide Adventure Path. There was no "falling out". Paizo had already established its new line of Adventure Paths, modules, and game setting (Golarion)—all under the Pathfinder name—well before the Pathfinder RPG was announced (they were in the middle of the fourth Adventure Path when they started playtesting the Pathfinder RPG). The Pathfinder RPG was born after WotC started previewing D&D 4e. Paizo said that they wanted to support their customers and also continue making the same kind of adventures that they made with 3.5., a huge part of their customer base were rather vocal in not wanting 4e, and the 4e GSL was [insert derisive terms of your choice here] so... The Pathfinder RPG was born.

 

[jaelis]

This sounds like an opportunity to me. I'm going to publish my own game, Sorcerers and Swashbucklers, an OGL clone of Pathfinder 1E. I'm going to capture all the disgruntled Pathfinder players who don't like PF2E!

Cool but you should call it Wayfinder or something