D&D 2E What PF2E means for D&D5E

[VisanidethDM]

Prettymuch nothing.

I have to agree with this.

5E has managed to build its success on the principle of creating a version of D&D that was familiar enough to appeal to traditional fans but also simple, modern and straightforward enough to attract a new generation of gamers. This means its fanbase is made of 2 kind of people: roleplayers who know what Pathfinder is and still choose 5E, and people who started playing thanks to 5E.

And since 5E's design ethos is pretty much the polar opposite of Pathfinder's, if Paizo attempts to create a product that goes after that audience they'll lose their traditional fans (who want a crunchy, rules-heavy game that puts simulationism, customization and internal consistency above balance and ease of use) with no guarantee of actually getting a significant part of the D&D audience. If they create something for their fans, an updated version of PF with a more modern sensibility, the best they can hope for is retaining their traditional audience.

I think challenging 5E in the current climate is a dauting task. It's an entry-level game (unlike previous incarnations which were in the upper echelon of complexity and often bizantine in design, or "gamer's games") that is also the most popular brand in the hobby. Only people who try 5E and are massively unsatisfied by it have any reason to try something else in the genre, because the alternatives won't ever offer the same level of support or a similar fanbase. And I don't see a significant number of people being dissatisfied with 5E, so...

 

[Gadget]

I think Pathfinder has established themselves as the Anti-WOTC D&D, appealing to those who are either offended by WOTC's handling of the game, or those who like more intricate, detailed game with lots and lots of character building options and process sim. I don't think that is going to affect WOTC D&D much at all, unless they do something radical to turn off their fan base (Sell the D&D game to poor custodian, rush out a new edition that is not liked, stop publishing it entirely).

I do think it will effect D&D in the sense that it will have new designs and ideas which will eventually find their way into mainstream D&D in one form or another if they are well received.

 

[Azzy]

Honestly, Paizo would have been dumb to base PF 2e on D&D 5e. Pathfinder has its fans that prefer it to 5e, so it'd be much wiser to cater to those fans and just the fix any issues that those fans have with the existing systems rather than creating a new system. Make it as backwards compatible with the previous edition, and your existing customers will be happy.

How will this affect D&D? Barely, if at all. D&D 5e and Pathfinder cater to a different playing experience, so those that prefer the less rules intensive 5e will stick to 5e, and those that prefer to micromanage their characters on a finer scale will stick with Pathfinder. Happiness ensues, and there is much rejoicing.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Any space RPG is D&D, but in space.
Any post-apocalypse RPG is D&D, but bladerunner.
...
Heck, I'm going to do a one-shot old school Paranoia for the kids. It's "D&D, but funny Orwell."

Much better examples.

 

[g4m3kn1ght]

I am going to go with moar game systems is moar better. I would not be surprised if some new 5e material ends up being inspired by this new Pathfinder edition.

 

[Sunseeker]

I'd probably just keep playing D&D 4e, unless there were some significant improvements to what I already think is a pretty good game.

While I probably would stick with 4E as well (unless P2 really felt like 4.75 like Pathfinder does for 3.5), it would be nice to see more support for that style of D&D.

Anyway, P2 will obviously take note of what 5E has that works and what 5E has that doesn't work. They sound like they're getting rid of the skill-point system, and while technically that was a 4E improvement, they also sound like they're integrating Proficiency. So I'm sure we'll see, much like 5E, a much slimmer, streamlined, less crunch-heavy system, but with all those bits and pieces that we like about Pathfinder.

I'm sure for everyone who ever wanted "Pathfinder Lite" it will probably be a great fit. I'm curious how people looking for "Pathfinder Toned Down" will see it though. Pathfinder certainly has its problems, and many of them are holdovers from 3.5, but Pathfinder also has MASSIVE community support. Part of 5E's success was that 4E didn't have community support. People were actively looking for something.

I'm not sure there are enough people actively looking for a new game to make P2 float.

As for Starfinder, sci-fi RPGs always do less well than fantasy ones, but that's just the market for ya.

 

[Shasarak]

It would be hilarious if PF2e ended up looking like D&D 4e.

I dont think that word means what you think it means.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

Paizo has a huge advantage going into this. They have been designing, developing, and fine-tuning their system for years. They just released a new system, which previews some of the new ideas and has been very well received. They have a very large and loyal fanbase, most of which are ready and eager for this new offering. Most (if not all) of the original authors and creators have been working on Pathfinder for the entire 10 years of the game's life, and are here working on the next edition. They even have the same artist (Wayne Reynolds)!

5e, by comparison, has been out 5 years already. People who have not been taking to it, have been looking elsewhere for something to fill that distinct D&D void. Namely, those who were fans of 4e, those who have lost faith in WotC, those who don't like the complexity of PF1, those who don't feel comfortable jumping into PF1 with so many books available but will like to get in on the ground floor for a newer, shinier PF2, those hoping for something between 5e and PF1 in terms of complexity options and product support, and those who want to like 5e but are simply tired of waiting for the next product to be released in six months. I'm willing to bet that's a much larger pool than any of us suspect.

I strongly believe that Paizo is going to surprise all of us. I look forward to seeing what happens!

 

[CAFRedblade]

I think that PF2 will draw on ideas and concepts learned from 5E D&D, and some of the mechanics used in Starfinder, but maybe with further adjustments. Much of the basics laid out so far in short form seem to correspond to stuff I've skimmed through my reading of my SF book. And I think even a few things in SF draw on concepts from D&D with their own twists to fit into SF. I look forward to seeing what further updates we get. Already not sure on using the shield being an action, but I may get used to that, especially with spells using anywhere from 1 to 3 actions. I have a feeling that based on comments from the D&D designers we could have had a similar system of 3 actions plus reaction, instead of Bonus Action, Action, Move, Reaction.

 

[GreyLord]

I dont think that word means what you think it means.

Oh, I think he might. For those not heavily invested into PF and favor WotC far more...it would be Hilarious...and ironic.

You have all these individuals that hated 4e and thought Pathfinder was their saving grace in preserving 3.X in gaming.

Then, Pathfinder becomes 4e.

You don't see the hilarity in that?


Back to being on topic.

I echo...it means nothing. It may be a blip where a bunch of people check it out, but in the long run I think D&D is back with 5e and it's not going anywhere soon.