D&D 2E What PF2E means for D&D5E

[Jester David]

I hope it means WotC will move up any plans for a Big Book of Crunch til before GenCon '19.

Which pretty much means next year's Spring release.

Doing so could
1) keep some customers from jumping ship
2) give me what I want, namely a crunchier 5th edition

Given they've probably planned the spring book already and started ordering art and testing, it's unlikely at this point that they'd change it. And it's SUPER unlikely that they could get a crunchier book done at that time, when they haven't done any UA to support it, so no playtesting and concept testing has been done.

 

[epithet]

Paizo is in an interesting position regarding competition in the TRPG market. A lot of us have spent a fair bit of time playing Pathfinder, and have migrated to 5e because the new version of D&D has the right mix of elegant simplicity and nostalgic flavor. The truth is, however, that I--and I'm sure I'm not alone in this--actually miss Paizo.

I like, genuinely, Chris Perkins and Mike Mearls. I like Jeremy Crawford, even if he did make some rule interpretations I know are wrong. I like the D&D 5e product line, in spite of some inevitable flaws. What I don't like is WotC/Hasbro. There's a sense I get that Hasbro doesn't understand D&D, and only thinks of it as a side gig for the MtG business unit. I get the feeling that there is a sort of animosity towards the RPG community lurking in the corner offices, that informs and influences their decisions on things like the sale of pdf versions of their current edition books and their treatment of community created tools like character generators. You can say what you want to about their "legal right" to make those decisions--I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that often, in important ways, Paizo has made different choices and earned my affection because of it. In fact, returning to D&D with 5e has made me appreciate Paizo even more, even while I absolutely prefer 5e over Pathfinder.

I don't know whether I'll switch over to PF2, or what it would take for me to seriously consider it. I do know that I'll eagerly check out the playtest, and when the books hit the market I'll buy the core PF2 system books unless it somehow has become a shocking trainwreck of a game (which seems unlikely.) I'll buy them (probably hardcover, pdf, and Fantasy Grounds) for two reasons: one is that even if I don't switch systems, PF2 will probably have a polished system for creating magic items as well as some other mechanics that I'll be able to apply to my 5e games. The second reason is that I like Paizo, and I want to support them.

 

[Morrus]

If it's anything like Starfinder, no thanks.

It's not.

 

[CrashFiend82]

I really hope that Paizo continues its success. Enough so that I may eventually purchase PF2 when it comes out. I like some of the ideas I have read so far and will definitely keep an eye on the playtest, even if I won't be involved. I was totally burned out by the end of 3.5 and stayed away from pathfinder. That and the fact I love 5e, I have no plan to switch. I hope they have a slower release schedule similar to 5e. With this edition I finally "feel" like I don't need to buy every release to be up to speed which has allowed me to branch out financially and support more 3rd party publishers, like Colville, Mercer, MT Black, EN5ider and others who have peaked my interest. If the quality of their books for PF2 is as good, and why wouldn't it be, I can see buying some for ideas and inspiration to tack onto 5e. I would love to see them convert their best material over to 5e and would pay them happily, but I can do most of that work myself.

 

[GreyLord]

I hope it means WotC will move up any plans for a Big Book of Crunch til before GenCon '19.

Which pretty much means next year's Spring release.

Doing so could
1) keep some customers from jumping ship
2) give me what I want, namely a crunchier 5th edition

Actually, I'd say the wiser decision MIGHT be to wait until AFTER Paizo releases their PF2 if that is the goal. Let the customers temporarily jump ship.

The goal is simply to bring them back in. If you release it prior to PF2e than many will still be interested in what PF2e is like and investigate.

YOU MIGHT be able to pre-empt PF2e IF you release a book of heavy crunch AROUND THE SAME TIME, thus when given the choice of either/or...they choose the one they are already playing (5e's crunch).

Otherwise, if you release afterwards, they have already been in your system previously, and then with your new book of crunch fall back to it in excitement.

It's sort of like what World of Warcraft used to do with expansions. A new MMORPG would be coming out, they'd let it, but then they'd release the expansion and everyone who had jumped ship to investigate the New MMORPG came back to WoW because it was what they knew, they were excited about the expansion, and then once back into the game, stayed with WoW.

While I agree they should not make a new game based on 5e, I do think there is a massive missed opportunity right now with Paizo.

If they published all their existing AP's as 5e conversions, a ton of people would buy them.
If they published all their existing "new" classes as 5e conversions, a bunch of people would buy them.
If they published all their existing "new" monsters as 5e conversions, a lot of people would buy them.

Bottom line - Paizo is missing out on the opportunity to make a bunch of money, AND gain goodwill with a new segment of the RPG population (which, at this point, is largely unfamiliar with them given the metric crapload of new players who joined with 5e), by not supporting 5e with any of their existing IP.

Now would that be the best use of a small portion of their limited resources? I don't know, but I suspect the answer is yes. I think a crew of 5 people converting stuff to 5e (while the rest continue with PF2) would make more money for the company than the same crew working on, for example, Starfinder going forward. If a lot of 5e fans started buying their 5e support material, some would also try out their 5e-Finder game....I mean PF2.

That's actually a REALLY smart idea. With the 5e fanbase right now, I'd say Paizo might make MORE money doing that than anything else they might even consider.

I'm all in with C&C, 5e and AD&D currently, with absolutely NO INTEREST in anything Pathfinder currently. IF they did that, though, they might even lure me i with interest with some of their material.

Now that I think about it, why don't they do that? It would make a LOT of sense. There is no longer the GSL of 4e to prevent them, and 5e has it's own OGL that they could easily utilize to do this...there's no reason not to. I think they'd make a LOT of money by doing that.

 

[Azzy]

I agree with some of the others—I want PF2 to be a success for Paizo and their customers. I have no intention of switching from 5e, but I really like Paizo (and their people). I wish them the best.

 

[Ancalagon]

Paizo is in an interesting position regarding competition in the TRPG market. A lot of us have spent a fair bit of time playing Pathfinder, and have migrated to 5e because the new version of D&D has the right mix of elegant simplicity and nostalgic flavor. The truth is, however, that I--and I'm sure I'm not alone in this--actually miss Paizo.

I like, genuinely, Chris Perkins and Mike Mearls. I like Jeremy Crawford, even if he did make some rule interpretations I know are wrong. I like the D&D 5e product line, in spite of some inevitable flaws. What I don't like is WotC/Hasbro. There's a sense I get that Hasbro doesn't understand D&D, and only thinks of it as a side gig for the MtG business unit. I get the feeling that there is a sort of animosity towards the RPG community lurking in the corner offices, that informs and influences their decisions on things like the sale of pdf versions of their current edition books and their treatment of community created tools like character generators. You can say what you want to about their "legal right" to make those decisions--I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying that often, in important ways, Paizo has made different choices and earned my affection because of it. In fact, returning to D&D with 5e has made me appreciate Paizo even more, even while I absolutely prefer 5e over Pathfinder.

I don't know whether I'll switch over to PF2, or what it would take for me to seriously consider it. I do know that I'll eagerly check out the playtest, and when the books hit the market I'll buy the core PF2 system books unless it somehow has become a shocking trainwreck of a game (which seems unlikely.) I'll buy them (probably hardcover, pdf, and Fantasy Grounds) for two reasons: one is that even if I don't switch systems, PF2 will probably have a polished system for creating magic items as well as some other mechanics that I'll be able to apply to my 5e games. The second reason is that I like Paizo, and I want to support them.

Loyalty to Paizo and PF may help people make the jump from PF1 to PF2 - the "I don't want to change but let's give them a chance" type of thinking. As long as PF2 is good, this sentiment might just save Paizo from seeing their community fracture too badly.

Because it is *guaranteed* that at least some will refuse to switch. The real question is how big, and how noisy/bitter will this group be?

It's not.

I for one am glad to hear that. Starfinder left me cold.

 

[Shasarak]

In Dnd terms: Paizo is surprised and also roll a bad initiative roll.

Paizo is playing a Wizard though (with no capped DC).

 

[Raith5]

I have never played PF because I was burnt out with 3.5 when it came out and looking for something new (which 4e delivered). I am not burnt out with 5e but I certainly like to see new things and innovation in the hobby. I also think there is market for things that WOTC is not delivering. I think that Matt Colville's kickstarter is evidence of this. I am interested to see if there is a market out there for a slightly more complicated game.

For my part, I think i could be attracted to PF2 if there is more customization of PCs, more tactically interesting martial classes and more engaging monsters. 5e certainly works for me, but it just works in some departments.

 

[Aldarc]

In Dnd terms: Paizo is surprised and also roll a bad initiative roll.

This statement is kinda ridiculous, and comes across as a pissing contest in disguise. Despite being on D&D systems, the companies are playing different games.

I can't help but get the feeling that some people in this forum are just playing "my daddy can beat your daddy" or want to see Paizo do poorly so that their "daddy" WotC/D&D 5e remains on its pedestal. I for one wish Paizo well. I hope that Pathfinder 2 does well beyond their own expectations. I want to see people play D&D, Pathfinder, and whatever else. More competition does the hobby well. And while it's nice seeing D&D regaining its stride, I would be saddened if Paizo and Pathfinder failed because they provide a different sort of game than D&D 5E. And while I do like D&D 5E, it's not perfect, and I think that I would become bored of D&D 5E if it's hegemony was unopposed.