What rules most need more official errata/clarification?

[hamishspence]

Rain of blows: you still actually have to hit with your attacks to get the corresponding secondary attacks, yes? They aren't a "You always Get them" thing?

 

[Ravingdork]

1) Key Word Inheritance
2) Skill Challenges
3) 3D aspects of combat
4) Stealth rules as the apply in combat

All of the above (in no particular order) could use some serious clarification and/or errata.

 

[Branduil]

Seal of binding.

 

[Thomson]

Well, I would recommend everybody to read this on skill challenges.

Skill challenges are not "roll this skill x times and don't fail y times"

One example of a skill challenge we had last session:

DM: "There is a chest on top of the pile of silver and gold pieces"
P1: "I will look at the chest... uh... wait... I ask the rogue to have a look at the chest"
P2: "Ok I look at the chest, anything suspicious?"
DM: "Please roll perception"
P2: "Wow, 21"
DM: (Making a mental note: 1st success of skill challenge) "Ok, you discover that the chest is locked and trapped with a poison needle"
P2: "Uh, I try to disarm the trap. Thievery?"
DM: "Sure."
P2: "Woot, 24"
DM: (Making a mental note: 2nd success of skill challenge) "The needle is disarmed, the lock seems to be pretty complicated"
P1: "Hey maybe I can assist him by having a look at the lock. Perception?"
DM: "Uh, maybe Thievery..."
P1: "Oh I got an 11 on Perception"
DM: (Making a mental note: 2 successes - he tried to assist, so no failure) "Well you're not of much help..."
P2: "I try to open the lock... Thievery again?"
DM: "Yea sure..."
P2: "Yeah, a 23!"
DM: (3 successes), "Ok you are almost there, but this lock is... really tough. You have made it past a few bolts, but the chest still does not open..."
P1: "I will try to help him again, this time with my thievery skills... Oops, five"
DM: (Thinking that P1 effort rather hinders than helps, 1st failure)
P2: "Well hey I will make it on my own! I made my 20 on Thievery!"
DM: (4 successes, 1 failure) The chest opens!

 

[Ravingdork]

Well, I would recommend everybody to read this on skill challenges.

Skill challenges are not "roll this skill x times and don't fail y times"

One example of a skill challenge we had last session:

DM: "There is a chest on top of the pile of silver and gold pieces"
P1: "I will look at the chest... uh... wait... I ask the rogue to have a look at the chest"
P2: "Ok I look at the chest, anything suspicious?"
DM: "Please roll perception"
P2: "Wow, 21"
DM: (Making a mental note: 1st success of skill challenge) "Ok, you discover that the chest is locked and trapped with a poison needle"
P2: "Uh, I try to disarm the trap. Thievery?"
DM: "Sure."
P2: "Woot, 24"
DM: (Making a mental note: 2nd success of skill challenge) "The needle is disarmed, the lock seems to be pretty complicated"
P1: "Hey maybe I can assist him by having a look at the lock. Perception?"
DM: "Uh, maybe Thievery..."
P1: "Oh I got an 11 on Perception"
DM: (Making a mental note: 2 successes - he tried to assist, so no failure) "Well you're not of much help..."
P2: "I try to open the lock... Thievery again?"
DM: "Yea sure..."
P2: "Yeah, a 23!"
DM: (3 successes), "Ok you are almost there, but this lock is... really tough. You have made it past a few bolts, but the chest still does not open..."
P1: "I will try to help him again, this time with my thievery skills... Oops, five"
DM: (Thinking that P1 effort rather hinders than helps, 1st failure)
P2: "Well hey I will make it on my own! I made my 20 on Thievery!"
DM: (4 successes, 1 failure) The chest opens!

That is...horrible. Your example shows that a challenge meant for the party is only really run byt he guy with the best skill while everyone else is useless.

 

[zoroaster100]

For me, definitely the rules for use of Stealth in combat is number on on the list. I think WOTC needs to carefully create and then publish a DDI article as soon as possible that presents several examples that clarify beyond doubt how the designers intend the rules to work in play.

 

[Thomson]

That is...horrible. Your example shows that a challenge meant for the party is only really run byt he guy with the best skill while everyone else is useless.

Well we all had fun, and it was a low complexity challange. It did not take much time.

For more complex tasks it is indeed important that every character can participate, though.

What I wanted to illustrate is, that in a skill challenge, each roll should mean something. Depending on success and failure you should tell the players what happens to explain how they come closer to achieve their goal.

 

[Derren]

Well, I would recommend everybody to read this on skill challenges.

Skill challenges are not "roll this skill x times and don't fail y times"

One example of a skill challenge we had last session:

DM: "There is a chest on top of the pile of silver and gold pieces"
P1: "I will look at the chest... uh... wait... I ask the rogue to have a look at the chest"
P2: "Ok I look at the chest, anything suspicious?"
DM: "Please roll perception"
P2: "Wow, 21"
DM: (Making a mental note: 1st success of skill challenge) "Ok, you discover that the chest is locked and trapped with a poison needle"
P2: "Uh, I try to disarm the trap. Thievery?"
DM: "Sure."
P2: "Woot, 24"
DM: (Making a mental note: 2nd success of skill challenge) "The needle is disarmed, the lock seems to be pretty complicated"
P1: "Hey maybe I can assist him by having a look at the lock. Perception?"
DM: "Uh, maybe Thievery..."
P1: "Oh I got an 11 on Perception"
DM: (Making a mental note: 2 successes - he tried to assist, so no failure) "Well you're not of much help..."
P2: "I try to open the lock... Thievery again?"
DM: "Yea sure..."
P2: "Yeah, a 23!"
DM: (3 successes), "Ok you are almost there, but this lock is... really tough. You have made it past a few bolts, but the chest still does not open..."
P1: "I will try to help him again, this time with my thievery skills... Oops, five"
DM: (Thinking that P1 effort rather hinders than helps, 1st failure)
P2: "Well hey I will make it on my own! I made my 20 on Thievery!"
DM: (4 successes, 1 failure) The chest opens!

Alternate version:

DM: "There is a chest on top of the pile of silver and gold pieces"
P1: "I will look at the chest... uh... wait... I ask the rogue to have a look at the chest"
P2: "Ok I look at the chest, anything suspicious?"
DM: "Please roll perception"
P2: "Wow, 21"
DM: (Making a mental note: 1st success of skill challenge) "Ok, you discover that the chest is locked and trapped with a poison needle"
P2: "Hey, warlock dude. Open the chest, will ya?"
P3: "Okey, dokey" *Use Eldricht Blast on treasure chest*
DM: "Uh, the warlock blasted a hole into the chest and its contents of gems and a few burned and unusable scrolls spill out"
P2: "Help me picking up all this gold and the gems, ok?

So the PCs got the treasure but the Skill challenge is not even half finished. And I am sure that if the warlock aims well he can blast the lid from the treasure chest without damaging the content or just destroy the lock+trap.
Also the PCs can be extra cautious and require much more skill checks to open the chest by carefully carrying it away before even trying to open it or by knocking on the chest and using listen to hear if it sounds suspicious. Thats another thing the rigid skill challenges can't handle.

There needs to be quite a lot of clarification of how Skill Challenges work out when a character uses a power instead of a skill to do something and how the DM should react to the players being faster or slower than he thought. Also the rather low success chance (or very high one depending on which Aid Another rules you use) must be addressed.

 

[Xorn]

You're nice, I'd have damaged more of the treasure, or just said the blast doesn't breach it. Or better yet it sets off the trap, hitting (at least) the warlock.

Anyway... #1 on my list:
Stealth in Combat

As far as critical hits, I think PHB pg 278 is very clear on the issue. Extra Damage rolled because you got a critical is not maximized. Would you roll those damage dice if you had gotten a normal hit? Maximize them.

And Perception checks in combat? Standard action. It's a minor action if you're trying to pinpoint where an invisible attacker is only--and that's an exception under Targeting What You Can't See PHB pg 281. If you're trying to find a control panel for stop the spiked walls from closing in on you while holding off two orcs holding the exit to the room--standard action. (I'd start discussing a bull rush with the less observant folks in the group.)

 

[Derren]

You're nice, I'd have damaged more of the treasure, or just said the blast doesn't breach it. Or better yet it sets off the trap, hitting (at least) the warlock.

If treasure gets damaged depends on what is in the chest. If it were just gold coins then you can simply smelt down whatever gets damaged. Also treasure chests are normally not completely full till under the lid which means that it is possible to destroy the lid but not touch the treasure at all. And if the first blast won't open the chest the second one will (or the fighter with his big axe).
As for the trap hitting the warlock, unless the needle is of the homing kind its really unlikely that it can hit a person standing 30 ft. away, below and maybe even behind the chest.