D&D 5E What should an official Indian subcontinent inspired setting have?

[Voadam]

The 5e PH has nobility, priesthood, merchants, craftsmen, and peasants as core background options for PCs among others. A themed setting could keep to that level of social system detail for its specific milieu, go more in depth for specific flavor and systems, or ignore such social status issues entirely.

An ancient greek myth style setting could have slaves. Or not.

A mythic Indian subcontinent setting could have caste systems. Or not. If they are included their treatment can vary hugely as well.

Lots of options. Lots of specific flavor possibilities.

 

[MGibster]

The 5e PH has nobility, priesthood, merchants, craftsmen, and peasants as core background options for PCs among others. A themed setting could keep to that level of social system detail for its specific milieu, go more in depth for specific flavor and systems, or ignore such social status issues entirely.

It does. I tend to see a lot of sailors for some reason.

 

[Yaarel]

The 5e PH has nobility, priesthood, merchants, craftsmen, and peasants as core background options for PCs among others. A themed setting could keep to that level of social system detail for its specific milieu, go more in depth for specific flavor and systems, or ignore such social status issues entirely.

An ancient greek myth style setting could have slaves. Or not.

A mythic Indian subcontinent setting could have caste systems. Or not. If they are included their treatment can vary hugely as well.

Lots of options. Lots of specific flavor possibilities.

Great point.

The caste system equates with:

• Priest
• Noble
• Merchant
• Peasant

Familiar enough for European inequalities. Plus the sense of marry into a good family.

The Players Handbook backgrounds handle these settings fine already.

A particular campaign may choose to ignore or explore the ethical implications.

 

[Voadam]

It does. I tend to see a lot of sailors for some reason.

The only background with perception as a skill. Coincidentally

The variant sailor Pirate though I see as more common as it's intimidating reputation ability is generally more fun than the standard sailor 'get a job on a boat' ability and pirates are generally cool conceptually.

I have played a pirate viking valor bard, and a friend played a pirate paladin of a sea god, both of them were lots of fun character concepts.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What I mean is that this was a setting with profound social inequality and exploitation. You had said "The vast majority of western-influenced D&D settings blithely ignore the institutions of serfdom, pogroms, class immobility, feudal obligations, indentured servitude, child marriage etc."

I'm not sure that "vast majority" is quite accurate, although I'll concede that warhammer is not D&D

Even WHFRP ignores pogroms, feudal obligations, indentured servitude, and child marriage. It dodges serfdom because the main setting is the Empire, and serfs don't really exist in the Empire (they do in Bretonnia, which rarely gets much of a look-in in WHFRP setting material). It does have class immobility though I guess.

It's absolutely true that the "vast majority" ignore all of these things.

I mean, what's your definition of vast majority? 70%? 80%? 90%? If we do a survey of TT RPGs in Western-ish settings, I guarantee we can reach any of those thresholds. The sheer number of bland, generic Western-ish settings is just staggering. Even if we only look at "major" TT RPG settings we're going to reach a high-80% threshold easily. Generally even "edgy" RPGs ignore these particular things (try-hard edgy RPGs tend to have more on sexual violence or sex work or slavery rather than anything as prosaic as indentured servitude or feudal obligations).

So I think it would be right for a South Asian setting to ignore caste, for example, rather to centralize it as an "exotic" feature.

@Henadic Theologian - I totally reject any idea that I'm "making it political", that's laughable, my point is that it's already political, and pretending it isn't, is a very big problem and is the sort of problem that people in the West might want to blithely ignore in order to simplify their lives, but probably shouldn't.

As for "over-thinking it", that is one of the most hilariously American comments I've ever read. I know a little bit more about South Asia/the Indian subcontinent than most Americans because 10% of the population here is South Asian and thus it's a topic that matters here a lot more than in the US where it's just recently grown to over 1%. I'm not even going into depth! But right now real-world India is doing some Very Bad Things (that are wildly underreported in certain countries, I agree) to non-Hindu populations so any TT RPG that just coincidentally eliminates all non-Hindus from its version of "Fantasy South Asia" is not going to look great, frankly, and not going to be remembered fondly. I'm staying away from historical comparisons for a reason but maybe meditate on what those might be.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

As for "over-thinking it", that is one of the most hilariously American comments I've ever read. I know a little bit more about South Asia/the Indian subcontinent than most Americans because 10% of the population here is South Asian and thus it's a topic that matters here a lot more than in the US where it's just recently grown to over 1%. I'm not even going into depth! But right now real-world India is doing some Very Bad Things (that are wildly underreported in certain countries, I agree) to non-Hindu populations so any TT RPG that just coincidentally eliminates all non-Hindus from its version of "Fantasy South Asia" is not going to look great, frankly, and not going to be remembered fondly. I'm staying away from historical comparisons for a reason but maybe meditate on what those might be.

I am fine with certain non-Hindu parts being left out because I am a firm believer in the fantasy versions of real world regions not including fantasy versions of the big three real-world religions that have millions/billions of followers. But that raises the problem with doing a fantasy Hindu at all, because that fits the same definition. Doing a fantasy version of those four is going to be wrong and unacceptable for a lot of people, no matter what. So has there ever been a fantasy version of India been done that was "not Hindu"?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So has there ever been a fantasy version of India been done that was "not Hindu"?

I have no idea.

What does "not Hindu" even mean this context? I'm proposing the setting should be "Hindu+others", not "not Hindu" those seem like very different things.

 

[Malmuria]

I am fine with certain non-Hindu parts being left out because I am a firm believer in the fantasy versions of real world regions not including fantasy versions of the big three real-world religions that have millions/billions of followers. But that raises the problem with doing a fantasy Hindu at all, because that fits the same definition. Doing a fantasy version of those four is going to be wrong and unacceptable for a lot of people, no matter what. So has there ever been a fantasy version of India been done that was "not Hindu"?

What I would do (for a home game) is use mythology and folklore as a base of inspiration for creating something new. For a published setting, you would want to be aware of making analogues that are offensive to real world followers (a real help here would be to ditch the alignment system, so that you didn't make deities that are important to people into "evil" gods due to misinterpretation).

 

[Ixal]

Even WHFRP ignores pogroms, feudal obligations, indentured servitude, and child marriage. It dodges serfdom because the main setting is the Empire, and serfs don't really exist in the Empire (they do in Bretonnia, which rarely gets much of a look-in in WHFRP setting material). It does have class immobility though I guess.

It's absolutely true that the "vast majority" ignore all of these things.

I mean, what's your definition of vast majority? 70%? 80%? 90%? If we do a survey of TT RPGs in Western-ish settings, I guarantee we can reach any of those thresholds. The sheer number of bland, generic Western-ish settings is just staggering. Even if we only look at "major" TT RPG settings we're going to reach a high-80% threshold easily. Generally even "edgy" RPGs ignore these particular things (try-hard edgy RPGs tend to have more on sexual violence or sex work or slavery rather than anything as prosaic as indentured servitude or feudal obligations).

So I think it would be right for a South Asian setting to ignore caste, for example, rather to centralize it as an "exotic" feature.

@Henadic Theologian - I totally reject any idea that I'm "making it political", that's laughable, my point is that it's already political, and pretending it isn't, is a very big problem and is the sort of problem that people in the West might want to blithely ignore in order to simplify their lives, but probably shouldn't.

As for "over-thinking it", that is one of the most hilariously American comments I've ever read. I know a little bit more about South Asia/the Indian subcontinent than most Americans because 10% of the population here is South Asian and thus it's a topic that matters here a lot more than in the US where it's just recently grown to over 1%. I'm not even going into depth! But right now real-world India is doing some Very Bad Things (that are wildly underreported in certain countries, I agree) to non-Hindu populations so any TT RPG that just coincidentally eliminates all non-Hindus from its version of "Fantasy South Asia" is not going to look great, frankly, and not going to be remembered fondly. I'm staying away from historical comparisons for a reason but maybe meditate on what those might be.

Not sure about the current whfrpg, but 2E had a entire book about Bretonnia with all the things you listed except child marriage (and I am not sure about that)

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I am fine with certain non-Hindu parts being left out because I am a firm believer in the fantasy versions of real world regions not including fantasy versions of the big three real-world religions that have millions/billions of followers. But that raises the problem with doing a fantasy Hindu at all, because that fits the same definition. Doing a fantasy version of those four is going to be wrong and unacceptable for a lot of people, no matter what. So has there ever been a fantasy version of India been done that was "not Hindu"?

So we're cool with including elements from Hinduism, a religion with 800 million + adherents, but NOT from the relatively tiny Judaism, for instance? That's weird.

Not looking for inspiration from medieval Christianity and Islam contributes to the incoherence of the way religion is treated in D&D. There seems to be a desire to replicate medieval European and Middle Eastern societies but not going anywhere near the element that was the single unifying cultural aspect of the disparate societies. The result ends up being the weird cartoon-Renfair that is the Forgotten Realms.