D&D 5E What should be in the 5e Monster Manual?

[the Jester]

Assuming about 275 pages of monsters are in the Monster Manual (by whatever name) of the new iteration of D&D, what should they be?

Here are a few of what I think of as "must have" monsters (or at least "really want" monsters); this is pretty much off the top of my head, so I'm no doubt missing a ton of things, but... I count 296 monsters on my list.

How about you?

A (7)
Angel
Ankheg
Ant, giant
Ape
Aranea
Ascomoid
Avolakia

B (18)
Basilisk
Bat (swarm and dire)
Bear (normal and dire)
Beetle, giant (several types: fire, oil, scarab swarm at least)
Beholder (beholder, gauth, eye of the deep)
Black pudding
Bloodbloater (individual, swarm and mutant)
Blue slime
Boneclaw
Bulette

C (4)
Carrion crawler
Chimera
Choker
Chuul

D (60)
Darkmantle
Death knight
Demon (vrock, hezrou, glabrezu, nalfeshnee, marilith, balor, evistro, succubus [yes, return to demon status], babau, goristro, armanite, dretch, chasme, Demogorgon, Orcus, Yeenoghu, Juiblex)
Destrachan
Devil (horned, bearded, barbed, lemure, pit fiend, erinyes, ice, legion, Asmodeus, Levistus, Baalzebul, Dispater, Bel, Glasya)
Dinosaur [yes, change back from behemoth] (triceratops, tyrannosaurus Rex, velociraptor, needlefang swarm)
Displacer beast
Dog (wild, guard, blink)
Doppelganger
Dracolich
Dragon (blue, black, green, red, white, gold, silver, faerie, earthquake, volcanic and a couple of lung/oriental dragons)
Dragon turtle
Dwarf (warrior, priest, smith)

E (11)
Elemental (air, earth, fire, water; perhaps 'lesser' and 'greater' for each)
Elf (wood/archer, grey/mage, bladesinger)

F (3)
Foulspawn (berserker and cabalist)
Frog (giant)

G (42)
Gargoyle (several types)
Gelatinous cube
Ghost (several examples, including the banshee)
Ghoul (ghoul, lacedon, ghast, Abyssal ghoul)
Giant (hill, stone, frost, fire, cloud, mountain, storm, death)
Githyanki (warrior, wizard, gish)
Githzerai (monk, wizard, arcane fist)
Gnoll (gnoll, flind, chieftain)
Gnome (illusionist, sneak, bard)
Goblinoid (goblin, hobgoblin, norker, bugbear)
Golem (flesh, clay, iron, stone)
Gray Ooze
Green Slime
Grell
Griffon

H (27)
Hag (sea, night, annis, green, bog, pact)
Halfling (chef, thief, slinger, master thief)
Hell hound
Hippogriff
Hook Horror
Horse (riding, draft, war, donkey)
Human (bandit, town guard, guild thief, mage, pilgrim, blackguard, priest)
Hydra
Hyena (normal and dire)

I (1)
Intellect devourer

J (1)
Jackalwere

K (7)
Kercpa (several examples)
Ki-Rin
Kobold (several examples)

L (7)
Lizard folk (standard, chief)
Lycanthrope (wererat, werewolf, werebear, wereboar, weretiger)

M (12)
Manticore
Medusa
Mimic
Mind flayer
Minotaur
Modron (monodrone, duodrone, tridrone, quadrone, pentadrone, hierarch, Primus)
Mummy
Mustard jelly

N (4)
Nightmare
Nightshade (nightwalker, nightwing, nightworm)


O (9)
Ogre
Olive slime (olive slime and slime creature)
Oni (the traditional ogre mage)
Orc (orc, berserker, chief)
Otyugh
Owlbear

P (2)
Pennangalan
Peryton

Q (1)
Quickling

R (6)
Rat (giant, dire, swarm)
Rakshasha
Roper
Rust Monster

S (34)
Sahuagin (normal, mutant, priest, baron, king)
Scorpion (giant and swarm)
Shadar-kai (several examples)
Shadow (normal and slow shadow)
Shambling mound
Shark (normal and dire)
Skeleton
Slaad (blue, red, green, grey, white, black, death, Ygorl, Ssendem)
Snake (constrictor, poisonous, amphisbaena, sea serpent)
Spider (several types including 'normal' giant spiders, tarantella, phase spider)
Stirge (single and swarm)

T (13)
Tabaxi
Tendriculous
Tiger (normal and dire)
Treant
Troglodyte (normal and chief)
Troll (troll, two-headed troll, giant troll, ice troll, war troll, spirit troll)

U (3)
Umber hulk (UH and vodyanoi)
Unicorn

V (3)
Vampire (thrall and master)
Violet Fungus

W (11)
Wasp (giant and swarm)
Wight
Wolf (normal, dire)
Worg
Worm (purple, giant maggot [I know, not technically a worm], tunnel worm)
Wraith
Wyvern

X (3)
Xill
Xorn
Xvart

Y (6)
Yellow musk creeper (and zombie)
Yugoloth (mezzoloth, nycaloth, ultroloth, arcanaloth)

Z (1)
Zombie

 

[TarionzCousin]

I think I would be okay if they started with the AD&D Monster Manual monsters only. Maybe throw in some popular (?) choices--like githyanki--and ensure that they have a good variety of types and CR's.

 

[Bungo_Underhill]

...
Dracolich
Dragon (blue, black, green, red, white, gold, silver, faerie, earthquake, volcanic and a couple of lung/oriental dragons)
Dragon turtle
Dwarf (warrior, priest, smith)

E (11)
Elemental (air, earth, fire, water; perhaps 'lesser' and 'greater' for each)
Elf (wood/archer, grey/mage, bladesinger)
...

That's a pretty comprehensive list! But I think you are missing Drow.

I'd be happy with far fewer monsters than you list (some the more obscure & planar creatures could sit in expansions MM2 etc.) as long as we get proper write ups and useful hooks for using the monsters - like the 4th ed monster vaults and not at all like the 4e MM1...

 

[delericho]

I'm rather hoping they go with a single Core Rulebook, which would include a small but representative selection of monsters. Under this model, the Monster Manual would be a supplementary bestiary, and so could afford to be a bit more off-beat in its selection.

If they go with the classic three-book model, though, they could do a lot worse than to just copy the monster selection from the 3.0e Monster Manual. It's maybe not a terribly surprising selection, but it's nicely functional.

Whichever approach they take, though, I hope they include a really strong monster-building toolkit. Especially since, initially at least, 5e will be missing a lot of monsters that people are used to using.

Finally, they should at least give some serious consideration to putting traps and environmental conditions into the Monster Manual. I know they don't seem to fit with the name of the book, but I think they do fit in with the more general theme of "challenges PCs face". Perhaps more importantly, the benefit of having all of these things in one resource rather than two is significant. (Plus, it would open the door to the designers then including more traps and environmental stuff in the inevitable "Monster Manual 2", and as these have traditionally been areas ripe for, but lacking in, expansion, I would consider that a good thing.)

 

[avin]

Ascomoid
Avolakia
Bloodbloater (individual, swarm and mutant)
Destrachan
Ki-Rin
Pennangalan
Peryton
Tabaxi
Violet Fungus
Xill
Xorn

On my very personal MM list I would save that for a later book and add:

Fomorians, Behir, Bullywug, Cyclops, Duergar, Kenku, Dark Ones, Derros, Spriggans, etc...

 

[Shemeska]

For the first time ever, can we please include NE fiends within the first MM of an edition? Otherwise it keeps them in the popular perception as less important, red-headed stepchildren of the lower planes.

That's my little niche contribution.

 

[steeldragons]

Assuming about 275 pages of monsters are in the Monster Manual (by whatever name) of the new iteration of D&D, what should they be?

FUN! We had a thread like this a way back. I think I'd want to see something like this.

I also want to reitrate, from what i saw in the other MM thread, that descriptions, culture (if applicable), and pictures of just about everything (not necessarily any normal/RW animals, mind) and the occasional few nice half or full page images of random groups of adventurers in the midst of battle against something in that section would be cool.

A (9 or 8 since Ankheg wouldn't have their entry here)
Aarakocra
Alligator (listing for crocodile, normal and giant versions of each)
Ankheg (See Vermin, Monstrous)
Animal, Herd
Ant, giant (also listing "giant fire")

B (18, 13 entries)
Banshee (See Undead)
Basilisk
Bat (swarm and dire)
Bear (normal and dire)
Beetle, giant (giant fire, giant slicer, giant scarab, and swarm)
Behir (See Dragon-kin)
Beholder
Birds (Eagle, Falcon/Hawk, Owl, Raven, normal and giant versions of each)
Black Pudding (See Ooze)
Blink Dog (See Dog)
Boar (normal and giant/dire)
Brownie (See Fairie)
Bulette

C (11, 10)
Carrion Crawler (See Vermin, Monstrous)
Cat (domestic, lion, tiger, puma, lynx, sabertooth tiger)
Cave Fisher
Centaur
Chimera
Cloaker

D (56, 13 headers/entries)
Deer (stags, elk, normal and giant versions of each)
Demon (dretch, imp, vrock, chasme, balor, succubus; sub-heading: Demon Lord: Demogorgon, Orcus, Yeenoghu, Juiblex, Grazzt)
Devil (lemure, quasit, horned, barbed, ice, pit fiend, erinyes; sub-heading Devil Prince: Asmodeus, Levistus, Baalzebul, Dispater, Glasya)
Dinosaur (triceratops, tyrannosaurus rex, velociraptor, pterodactyl)
Displacer beast
Dog (wild, hunting/hound, guard/mastiff, Blink)
Dolphin (normal, intelligent/telepathic)
Doppelganger
Dragon (Black, Blue, Green, Red, White; Bronze, Gold, Silver; Fairie, Shadow)
Dragon Turtle (See Turtle)
Dragon-kin (Behir, Dragonne, Wyvern)
Dragonne (See Dragon-kin)
Drider
Drow (See Elf)
Dryad
Dwarf

E (16, 15 creatures not counting lesser/greater elementals as separate)
Eagle, giant (See Birds)
Elemental (air, earth, fire, water; "lesser" and "greater" versions of each; sub-heading Elemental Beings: Pechs, Salamanders, Sylphs, Undines)
Elephant (normal, war/battle, mammoth)
Elf (Grey, High, Wood, The Drow/Dark Elf)
Ettin (See Giantkin)

F (10)
Faerie (Brownie, Pixie, Nixie, Quickling, Sprite)
Formorian (See Giant-kin)
Frog (giant, giant poisonous, toad giant/poisonous)

G (29, but really only 24 with actual entries here.)
Gargoyle
Gelatinous Cube (See Ooze)
Ghost (See Undead)
Ghoul (See Undead)
Giant (hill, stone, wood [treants], frost, fire, storm)
Giantkin (Ettin, Goliath/Firbolg, Formorian)
Gith (-yanki and -zerai)
Gnoll
Gnome
Goblinoid (Boggle, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Bugbear)
Golem (Crystal, Flesh, Iron, Stone)
Gray Ooze (See Ooze)
Green Slime (See Ooze)
Grell [Oooo, nice one @Jester . I would have forgotten that!]
Griffon

H (22)
Hag (Annis, Green, Night, Sea)
Halfling
Harpy
Hell Hound
Hippogriff
Hook Horror
Horse (riding, draft, war, donkey)
Human (Bandit, Commoner, Cultist, Guard/Soldier, Nomad/Tribesman)
Hydra (normal and Pyro)
Hyena (normal and dire)

I (2)
Imp (See Demon)
Intellect Devourer

J (1)
Jackalwere

K (3)
Kelpie
Ki-Rin
Kobold

L (6)
Lizardmen j/k -folk is fine.
Lycanthrope (were-bear, -boar, -cat [see Cat for choice of species], -rat, -wolf)

M (6)
Manticore
Medusa
Mimic
Mind Flayer
Minotaur
Mummy (See Undead)

N (3)
Night Hag (See Hag)
Nightmare
Nixie (See Fairie)
Nymph

O (9)
Ochre Jelly (See Ooze)
Ogre
Oni (the traditional ogre mage)
Ooze (Black Pudding, Green Slime, Grey Ooze, Ochre Jelly)
Orc
Otyugh
Owlbear

P (6)
Pech (See Elemental)
Pegasus
Pennangalan (See Undead)
Peryton
Phantom Stalker
Phase Spider (See Spider)
Piercer
Pixie (See Fairie)

Q (2 but not really)
Quasit (See Devil)
Quickling (See Fairie)

R (7)
Rat (giant, dire, swarm)
Rakshasha
Remorhaz
Roper
Rust Monster (See Vermin, Monstrous)

S (25)
Sahuagin
Salamander (See Elemental)
Satyr
Scorpion (giant and swarm)
Shadow (See Undead)
Shambling Mound
Shark (normal and dire)
Skeleton (See Undead)
Snake (constrictor, poisonous, giant versions of each, sea serpent)
Spectre (See Undead)
Spider (bola, poisonous, tarantella, wolf, large and giant versions of each, Phase)
Sprite (See Fairie)
Stirge (See Vermin, Monstrous)
Sylph (See Elemental)

T (12)
Tabaxi
Trappers (trapper and lurker above)
Treant (See Giant)
Troglodyte
Troll (forest, ice, rock, two-headed)
Turtle (giant, giant snapper, Dragon)

U (3)
Umber hulk
Undead (banshee, ghost, ghoul, mummy, pennangalan, shadow, spectre, skeleton, vampire, wight, wraith, zombie)
Undine (See Elemental)
Unicorn

V (6)
Vampire (See Undead)
Vermin, Monstrous (Ankheg, Carrion Crawler, Rust Monster, Stirge)
Violet Fungus

W (8)
Wasp (giant and swarm)
Wight (See Undead)
Will-O-Wisp
Wolf (normal, dire/worg, Winter)
Wraith (See Undead)
Wyvern (See Dragonkin)

X (3)
Xill
Xorn
Xvart

Y (6)
Yellow musk creeper (and zombie)
[EDIT] Yugoloths (for Shemeska. He's right) I dunno, how many there are. Start with 3 or 4 types?[/EDIT]

Z (1)
Zombie (See Undead)

So...yeah...how many is that? I lost count. I think it could make 275 pages.

 

[Li Shenron]

Nice game

Animal (wide selection + swarms)
Animated Object
Assassin Vine (could also be a hazard in DMG)
Banshee
Basilisk
Beholder
Bulette
Carrior Crawler
Celestial (Lantern Archon, Trumpet Archon, Astral Deva + template)
Centaur
Chimera
Cockatrice
Couatl
Crimson Death
Demon (Vrock, Glabrezu, Hezrou, Succubus, Kelvezu, Marilith, Balor)
Devil (Imp, Barbazu, Cornugon, Narzugon, Malebranche, Pit Fiend)
Dinosaur (Pterodactylus, Triceratops, Tyrannosaurus)
Dire Animal (Rat, Wolf, Boar, Bear, Lion, Tiger, Crocodile)
Displacer Beast
Doppleganger
Dragon (White, Black, Blue, Green, Red, Gold, Dracolich)
Drider
Dryad
Dwarf (Hill, Duergar, Derro)
Elemental (Air, Water, Fire, Earth of varying sizes + template)
Elf (High, Drow)
Fiend (template)
Frost Worm
Gargoyle
Genie (Djinni, Efreeti)
Ghost
Ghoul
Giant (Hill, Stone, Fire, Frost, Cloud, Storm)
Giant Eagle
Gnoll
Gnome
Goblin
Golem (Clay, Stone, Iron, Bronze, Stained Glass, Gingerbread)
Griffon
Grim Reaper
Hag (Sea, Green, Annis, Bog, Marzanna)
Halfling
Harpy
Hell Hound
Hippogriff
Hobgoblin
Homunculus
Hydra, Lernean
Juggernaut
Kobold
Kraken
Kuo-Toa
Leviathan
Lich
Linnorm/Landwyrm
Lycanthrope (werewolf, wererat, werebear)
Lizardfolk
Manticore
Medusa
Mephit (fire, water, earth, air, ice, ooze, dust, magma, salt, steam)
Merfolk
Mimic (could also be a hazard in DMG)
Mind Flayer
Minotaur
Mummy
Nightmare
Nishruu
Nymph
Ogre
Ogre Mage
Ooze (ochre jelly, grey ooze, black pudding, green slime, gelatinous cube)
Orc
Owlbear
Pegasus
Phoenix
Pixie
Planetouched (aasimar, tiefling, genasi)
Purple Worm
Rakshasa
Remorhaz
Roc
Roper
Rust Monster
Salamander
Satyr
Scorpion, monstrous
Shadow
Skeleton
Sphinx
Spider, monstrous (wide selection)
Titan
Treant
Troglodyte
Troll
Umber Hulk
Unicorn
Vampire
Wickerman
Wight
Will-'o-wisp
Winter Wolf
Worg
Worm-that-walks
Wraith
Wyvern
Yuan-ti
Zombie

I think that's about 170 + animals, so around 200. Should allow 1.5 page each.

 

[avin]

Foulspawn arrived on a later 3.5 book and were present all over 4E.

Foulspawn are a nice addition to the game, I would put in the first MM...

I think, in fact, MM should be core's biggest book.

 

[Li Shenron]

I'm rather hoping they go with a single Core Rulebook, which would include a small but representative selection of monsters.

I think it's too hard...

Single corebook means probably max 500 pages, means high price for those who are only players, and way too small for the DM to have but a really small selection of stuff.

Of course the DM can just buy more books (2x500 is the ~same as 3x320), but I think that if you need to squeeze monsters in with PC stuff (including spells!) and DM rules (including items!), then there is room for really too few monsters IMHO, to the point that if another book of monsters is very much needed within 2-3 months, then they can just go with the traditional 3 books arrangement.

 

[delericho]

I think it's too hard...

Single corebook means probably max 500 pages,

500 page hardbacks are awful. Too big, too heavy, and too expensive. ~250 pages is much more reasonable.

IMO, if the game is so complex it won't fit in a single book of ~250 pages, it's too complex.

means high price for those who are only players, and way too small for the DM to have but a really small selection of stuff.

B/X manages with considerably less than that, despite the inefficiency of splitting the materials between the two sets. And, of course, there's the "Rules Cyclopedia".

Of course the DM can just buy more books (2x500 is the ~same as 3x320), but I think that if you need to squeeze monsters in with PC stuff (including spells!) and DM rules (including items!), then there is room for really too few monsters IMHO, to the point that if another book of monsters is very much needed within 2-3 months, then they can just go with the traditional 3 books arrangement.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Ed manages with one book. As does Wheel of Time d20. And Star Wars Saga Edition, Mutants & Masterminds, Call of Cthulhu d20, Vampire: the Masquerade (2nd Ed and Revised)...

In moving from boxed sets and thin booklets to thick hardback books, D&D allowed itself to bloat up to a ridiculous degree. This was probably inevitable, as having all that space created a need to fill it. But it has led to what is a very simple game concept becoming an unholy mess of endless races, classes, powers, feats, themes, and other 'moving parts', probably to the point where it hampers player acquisition.

It's time D&D was put on a very restricted diet. IMO, of course.

 

[Li Shenron]

IMO, if the game is so complex it won't fit in a single book of ~250 pages, it's too complex.

...

It's time D&D was put on a very restricted diet. IMO, of course.

I suppose it is possible after all... but something needs to be sacrificed, and anything that gets the axe too much will cost a significant chunk of the gamers base. Shrinking everything a little bit is not enough to slim down 75% (from ~1000 pages to ~250). 4e tried it with the "everything is core!" multiple-PHBs approach, and many hated it (for publishing reasons, it means to wait a long time before starting to play things that people consider core).

But back to the topic, I wrote my list of MM "nominations". It's slimmed down compared to the 3ed MM, but certainly nearly not enough for merging the MM with another book. I mostly wrote monsters that have been in D&D since many editions, AFAIK, plus a bunch of personal favourites (still I guess that >90% of my entries were in 3ed MM).

The reason I don't want too many is rather that I would prefer a very nicely written MM, less stuff but very high quality content & format, which for me means:

- good stats layout, very readable, and possibly separating the combat stuff from non-combat (maybe further separating the exploration-phase and social-phase)
- good suggestions for how to tactically run the creature in combat and out of combat
- traditional solid fluff, but still generic enough to apply to many settings
- nicely sized artwork

I don't care for "new" monsters in the first MM. I don't even care if my favourite non-core monsters are promoted to core. I prefer less monsters, as long as the most iconic (i.e. have been there for most editions) are there.

 

[Li Shenron]

IMO, if the game is so complex it won't fit in a single book of ~250 pages, it's too complex.

...

It's time D&D was put on a very restricted diet. IMO, of course.

I suppose it is possible after all... but something needs to be sacrificed, and anything that gets the axe too much will cost a significant chunk of the gamers base. Shrinking everything a little bit is not enough to slim down 75% (from ~1000 pages to ~250). 4e tried it with the "everything is core!" multiple-PHBs approach, and many hated it (for publishing reasons, it means to wait a long time before starting to play things that people consider core).

But back to the topic, I wrote my list of MM "nominations". It's slimmed down compared to the 3ed MM, but certainly nearly not enough for merging the MM with another book. I mostly wrote monsters that have been in D&D since many editions, AFAIK, plus a bunch of personal favourites (still I guess that >90% of my entries were in 3ed MM).

The reason I don't want too many is rather that I would prefer a very nicely written MM, less stuff but very high quality content & format, which for me means:

- good stats layout, very readable, and possibly separating the combat stuff from non-combat (maybe further separating the exploration-phase and social-phase)
- good suggestions for how to tactically run the creature in combat and out of combat
- traditional solid fluff, but still generic enough to apply to many settings
- nicely sized artwork

I don't care for "new" monsters in the first MM. I don't even care if my favourite non-core monsters are promoted to core. I prefer less monsters, as long as the most iconic (i.e. have been there for most editions) are there. Still, they are too many to think they could be shrunk to a single book with everything else and still guarantee those quality parameters above.

 

[Hassassin]

Assuming about 275 pages of monsters are in the Monster Manual (by whatever name) of the new iteration of D&D, what should they be?

I'd like to see the Banshee. Only, it should be a more authentic bean sidhe, i.e. fey, and not the undead in e.g. 3.5 MM2.

 

[Aeolius]

I have no doubt we'll see the kuo-toa and sahuagin in the 5e MM, but that's hardly sufficient to fill the seas.

With a brief paragraph in select monster entries, we can add scrag (troll), merrow (ogre), koalinth (hobgoblin), kapoacinth (gargoyle), sea elf, and the like, which leaves a handful of unique aquatic races needed to round things out; merfolk, locathah, triton, etc.

Then, with the inclusion of an aquatic/amphibious template, we're in like Flynn.

 

[Glade Riven]

I'd say remove the multiple versions of a single creature from core MM. In fact, I'd be fine with a smaller selection of monsters overall with easy, stackable templates that could be added to any monster. Templates would be separate from the monsters instead of mixed in like how 3e had it.

Templates:
Aquatic
Brute
Celestial
Champion
Chieftan
Diminutive
Dire
Draconic
Elemental
Fiendish
Gigantic
Ghost
Lich
Lycanthrope
Shaman
Skeleton
Vampire
Zombie
etc.

So you take a Troll, add templates Dire and Draconic to it, and you have a nasty new monster for higher level foes. Or a Ghost Lich Hobgoblin, Elemental (icy) Pit Fiend, zombie werebadger, etc.

 

[Kaodi]

Here is that other thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/310279-beginners-monster-list.html .

I would probably still stick by the list I made in that thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/5661100-post41.html .