What Should the Bard Be?

[Tonguez]

Orator Bard concepts

Inspiring Commander: The Brigrade Captain, riding back and forth, his voice raised commandingly, invokes their legendary founders, inspiring the company to courageously face the incoming horde!

The Agitator: Standing upon his makeshift podium, the angry Rebel agitates the crowd, quoting the teachings of Jahn Ball as he calls them to throw down the yoke of serfdom and demand equality before the king!

Diplomat: Eloquent before the Dwarf King the young Diplomat invokes ancient friendships, dwarven tradition and his own personel charm to persuade the Mountain Laird to join the new alliance.

Priest: The Priest speaks to the assembled faithful, invoking the rite of the goddess, her words a calming salve bringing peace and rest to their weary souls.

Merchant: The Merchant speaks quickly, referring to his recent travels to exotic Samarkand, trying to convince the Emperor that the invisible cloth is of exquisite beauty and texture, and will certainly make a truely stunning outfit for his majesty’s next appearance.

Con-Artist: The quickwitted Charlatan, his slick dialogue and quick hands a distraction as he calls for pundits to lay their bets and keep their eyes on the ball.

and not a lute or whistle in sight!

 

[Lanefan]

Orator Bard concepts

Inspiring Commander: The Brigrade Captain, riding back and forth, his voice raised commandingly, invokes their legendary founders, inspiring the company to courageously face the incoming horde!

The Agitator: Standing upon his makeshift podium, the angry Rebel agitates the crowd, quoting the teachings of Jahn Ball as he calls them to throw down the yoke of serfdom and demand equality before the king!

Diplomat: Eloquent before the Dwarf King the young Diplomat invokes ancient friendships, dwarven tradition and his own personel charm to persuade the Mountain Laird to join the new alliance.

Priest: The Priest speaks to the assembled faithful, invoking the rite of the goddess, her words a calming salve bringing peace and rest to their weary souls.

Merchant: The Merchant speaks quickly, referring to his recent travels to exotic Samarkand, trying to convince the Emperor that the invisible cloth is of exquisite beauty and texture, and will certainly make a truely stunning outfit for his majesty’s next appearance.

Con-Artist: The quickwitted Charlatan, his slick dialogue and quick hands a distraction as he calls for pundits to lay their bets and keep their eyes on the ball.

and not a lute or whistle in sight!

In order those strike me as being, classwise:

Fighter; Rogue; non-adventuring politician class; Cleric; non-adventuring merchant class, and Rogue (Thief).

None of them exactly scream "adventuring Bard"...or even sing it.

 

[Laurefindel]

None of them exactly scream "adventuring Bard"...or even sing it.

I think that's the idea; that a bard has less to do with music and singing than someone using their wits to get around/manipulate people.

Personally, I like to see bards as a folk people first and foremost. Culture and folklore is their interest, and with it comes songs and tales.

 

[Baron Opal II]

For me, bards are the masters of communication. They can bring communities together or tear them apart. They can make deals that must be honored. As a very important byproduct of that, the have phenomenal memories and retain with great fidelity information stored as poems, songs, even paintings sometimes.

If they know magic it is rarely spells. Rather, they invoke favors earned from entities met on their travels. Or, they learn tricks to determine the weather or improve their luck.

 

[Lanefan]

I think that's the idea; that a bard has less to do with music and singing than someone using their wits to get around/manipulate people.

The bolded isn't really much of a niche to build a class around, as it's in theory something that anyone with some Charisma and Intelligence can do and that anyone can try.

The minstrel archetype, however, is enough of a niche to hang a class on. Everyone can talk, but not everyone can play an instrument or sing well.

 

[Laurefindel]

The bolded isn't really much of a niche to build a class around, as it's in theory something that anyone with some Charisma and Intelligence can do and that anyone can try.

The minstrel archetype, however, is enough of a niche to hang a class on. Everyone can talk, but not everyone can play an instrument or sing well.

Well, yeah. Like anyone with some strength and dexterity can fight; it doesn't make them all fighters. I'm not disagreeing with you however, "the artist class" is the niche the bard goes after.

 

[Tonguez]

The bolded isn't really much of a niche to build a class around, as it's in theory something that anyone with some Charisma and Intelligence can do and that anyone can try.

The minstrel archetype, however, is enough of a niche to hang a class on. Everyone can talk, but not everyone can play an instrument or sing well.

I dont think the Minstrel is any better for a class than is a ‘manipulator’ role. A rogue with a lute is as much a minstrel as anyone else.

The point of Bard is they combine Lore with Inspiration. Often that Lore is conveyed in song but it doesnt have to be - the Commander studies military history, invoking military lore/legend AND inspiring courage in their troops, the Diplomat studies the Lore of Heraldry and Court ettiquette and then uses that to enhance their persuasiveness, the Merchant learns Lore of Markets and Goods and then uses that knowledge to sell exotic products to customers (they also need some martial knowledge to protect themselves when travelling between ports).

The bard is a hybrid class that does overlap with fighter and rogue and other charismatic roles (clergy/politics/merchant), but its the Lore and Inspiration that differentiate them, so lets build up the variety of Lore and the scope of inspiration applicable

 

[aco175]

I like the idea of a bard, but they loose me when they can do any role as well as the class the role is designed for. They should be more 1/2 or 1/3 all those things.

The idea of jack of all trades fits them, but also master of none.

 

[GMMichael]

Well, yeah. Like anyone with some strength and dexterity can fight; it doesn't make them all fighters. I'm not disagreeing with you however, "the artist class" is the niche the bard goes after.

Hmm, artist is a departure from influencer, but the two can have some things in common. Does influencer point more toward Priest than it points to Bard? (Influencing undead to leave, for example.) My concern is that Artist sounds about as adventurous as Bookkeeper does.

I like the idea of a bard, but they loose me when they can do any role as well as the class the role is designed for. They should be more 1/2 or 1/3 all those things.

The idea of jack of all trades fits them, but also master of none.

Aw, the bard doesn't get to shine? This could be the bard's calling too, but seems to make the bard watered down when the real masters are in the party with him. It's the explicit design goal of D&D's Factotum class, which had the uber-meta (or quasi magical?) feature of getting a boost of mastery here and there, on demand. But it's not the worst place to be - if a party runs low on experts or is missing the right one, a jack of all trades would be nice to have around.

 

[Maxperson]

For me the perfect bard would be a jack of all trades/lore master/storyteller. I dislike the musical aspect of bards. However, I recognize that my desire is like oil to the water of the current bard vision. I can't really have my bard since a lot of the bardic abilities don't really work for a lore master/storyteller.