D&D 5E What Single Thing Would You Eliminate

[jmartkdr2]

Subpar... by a point, on average. Normally I would say that including options in a game that are dominated by other options is a bad idea - but when it's as little as a point of damage - 2 at max - getting one's undies in a bundle about it is an overreaction. It is the only martial melee weapon with the thrown property and even though the spear has the same basic stats as a simple weapon, characters that have martial weapon proficiencies lose nothing of significance picking it over the spear. So it's not even clear that it is a fully dominated option for a fighter. It does less damage than a longsword, battleaxe, or warhammer... but only at ranges from 0 to 5 feet. The trident beats the hell out of them at any range over 5 feet.

I'm not trying to argue it's a big problem - it doesn't even make my top ten issues with the game, and even then only as an extreme example of why to whole weapon list isn't great.

But it is an annoyance. I'm arguing that just because it doesn't annoy you doesn't mean it doesn't annoy anyone, nor does it mean the people who are annoyed are wrong to be annoyed.

The main reason this one ... itches, is there's no tradeoff. No matter how small an issue the difference between tridents and other weapons is, there's nothing gained from the difference, it seems pointless. So the idea that it shouldn't be changed because it isn't a big enough problem feels logically unsound.

What is the minimum amount of litter before it's worth picking up?

 

[billd91]

I'm not trying to argue it's a big problem - it doesn't even make my top ten issues with the game, and even then only as an extreme example of why to whole weapon list isn't great.

But it is an annoyance. I'm arguing that just because it doesn't annoy you doesn't mean it doesn't annoy anyone, nor does it mean the people who are annoyed are wrong to be annoyed.

The main reason this one ... itches, is there's no tradeoff. No matter how small an issue the difference between tridents and other weapons is, there's nothing gained from the difference, it seems pointless. So the idea that it shouldn't be changed because it isn't a big enough problem feels logically unsound.

What is the minimum amount of litter before it's worth picking up?

Well then at some point, what's the point of having choices be anything other than cosmetic? If everything did 1d6, you wouldn't have to worry about the issue at all. Yet that would pretty much suck because people like choices to matter.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Well then at some point, what's the point of having choices be anything other than cosmetic? If everything did 1d6, you wouldn't have to worry about the issue at all. Yet that would pretty much suck because people like choices to matter.

Are you making a slippery slope argument here? If we balance tridents with the rest of the weapons table, the we must make all characters identical?

 

[TwoSix]

It's weaker than any of the other martial options, so you're deliberately using a subpar option. Whether you call that "a bonus for picking a longsword" or "a penalty for picking a trident," the game favors longswords over tridents.

The simplest solution would be to make tridents simple weapons, so that they're actually redundant. But as martial weapons, if you pick trident you're nearly always taking a hit to mechanics for roleplay reasons - and you shouldn't need to choose between roleplaying and effectiveness at the character concept level.

It isn't actually worse than other martial weapons. It's a 1d6 thrown(20) versatile. If you made it a 1d8, it would be straight up better than the longsword/warhammer/battle axe trio.

The problem with trident is that some of the simple weapons, like spear, are a little overbudget for what they provide, and there's no space to make a martial version of the spear that isn't better than what the longsword was already budgeted at.

It's not some terrible issue, but the weapon chart could have used a pass to make sure each weapon followed an overall budget and that martials were meaningful upgrades over every simple. Then we could have avoided some of the "proud nails" like rapiers, spears vs tridents, and greataxe vs greatsword.

 

[billd91]

Are you making a slippery slope argument here? If we balance tridents with the rest of the weapons table, the we must make all characters identical?

What I'm saying is that if you're balancing everything just around damage - then, yes, make them all the same. But that's not what the trident does. It does a little less damage, but if you advance it to do 1d8 (1d10 with versatile), then it's actually better than the longsword, battleaxe, and warhammer because you can also throw it. The fact that you undervalue that Thrown property doesn't really make it subpar.

 

[DnD Warlord]

Hit point bloat. I’d really like to see HP levels go back to 1E/2E levels.

In the end, though there are far more things I’d like to ADD to the game, than subtract.

I keep pitching a mix of 4e and 2e for hp (front load but less overall).
Everyone starts with con score hp (not modifier full 8-20 score) then every even level gain a HD based on class (but knock down 1 die cod from current so d8 fighters d6 cleric and rogue and d4 wizards) get your con bonus to these (and keep the spend hd recover hd mechanics) and at odd levels you get a set number like in 2e (fighters get 3 rouge and cleric get 2 wizard gets 1) so a Con 20 fighter at level 20 “only” has 10d10+97 so 150ish and a wizard with a 12 con has 10d4+31 so about 56

 

[DnD Warlord]

It's off topic, but I would be interested in how such an easy fight on paper (CR wise, I don't know what "Sir Bluto" is) could have gone so horribly off the rails.

I actually find it is super easy for a low level encounter to turn bad...a party of 5 11th level characters can take on a CR21 dragon and win then 2 days later 3 shadows almost TPK them

 

[DnD Warlord]

20 pages, so I guess I can add another feature to be removed from the game.
remove Reroll.
We have advantage that is a great mechanic, triple advantage for those who like to crunch,
But reroll on top of that! stop, enough, just remove reroll.

Hafling reroll 1s the Lucy feat and advantage togather make me want to throw my dice at the player

 

[CleverNickName]

It's weaker than any of the other martial options, so you're deliberately using a subpar option.

"Deliberately using a subpar option" does not mean the same thing as "being penalized," but now I'm repeating myself.

But ... but ... its 5 times more expensive and 1/3 heavier then a spear! For the same damage, range and versatility as a spear! Totally broken.

I understand that the trident isn't a spear. It's not a dagger either, nor is it a crossbow. It's more like a rapier than a longsword is, somehow, but it's definitely not a halberd....

If the trident is a sticking point for you (rimshot), just tell the DM that you have a lance (or whatever) instead. Write down all of the stats and features for a lance (d12 piercing, reach, costs 10gp, etc) but for the name, write TRIDENT on your character sheet instead. It's just a name.

 

[Tinker-TDC]

Reflavoring is always the easy option but the trident never feels right because it and a few others don't fit into the unofficial formula on weapons:

Weapon deals d6.
Die size increases if:
-Heavy
-2-handed
-Versatile (being wielded in two hands)
-Martial
Die size decreases if:
-Light
-Ammunition without Loading
-Reach
-Finesse and Throwing weapons don't exceed d6 and cannot be used 2-handed-

Now of course some things stand out, so if you want to be optimal you choose:
-Handaxe if you want to dual-wield light weapons (and don't need finesse).
-Rapier if you want to not dual-wield finesse weapons.
-Greatsword/Maul if you want to use a heavy 2-handed melee weapon.

But it also means if you can wield martial weapons you would be equal taking a spear to a trident, despite it being martial instead of simple. The obvious fix is to make it simple. The fix that would also make it work is upping the damage die to d8/d10 versatile but making it a d6 thrown (unnecessarily complicated). I suppose you could also make it the only d8 throwing weapon making it the superior ranged choice for Strength characters (like the Rapier is the superior melee choice for Dexterity characters) but that throws things off.
Naturally, the most reasonable thing is probably getting rid of the trident and making a trident a type of spear. Nothing is lost and one disparity is fixed.