What size creature can I be with Polymorph Any Object?

[Drasmir]

If I am a medium sized creature and I want to be polymorphed into a larger or smaller size what are my limitations? Basically, Polymorph Any Object says it operates like Polymorph, and Polymorph says it operates like Alter Self. According to Alter Self, I can only go one size smaller or larger? So basically does this mean I can go to size small or large (or stay the same at medium)? Sounds kind of restrictive, but I can see that it may make sense considering that I could really go crazy with power without some limitation of size.

How do you rule this spell in your games?

 

[Drasmir]

Bumping this thread since it was submitted a little late yesterday.

BUMP

 

[FrankTrollman]

Polymorph Any Object is like Polymorph except that you can transform any creature or object into another [creature or object].

So if you are targetting a medium creature it is a creature, so you can transform it into a Titan - because that falls into the category "any creature". You can also turn it into an indoor fern because that falls into the category "any object".

I can use my telepathic powers to see your incredulous looks - but it is true.

For example, you can turn a shrew (fine, less than 1 hit die) into a Manticore (Large, 6 hit dice).

Once you get into PAO you can turn essentially anything into essentially anything else. For real fun, get your Fighter's Intelligence - even temporarily - up to 21. Then you can transform him into a Titan, permanently.

-Frank

 

[Thanee]

For real fun, get your Fighter's Intelligence - even temporarily - up to 21. Then you can transform him into a Titan, permanently.

Hmm... I would only count permanent INT here, tho.

But yeah, Polymorph any Object (and Shapechange) still seem 'a bit' over the top.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FrankTrollman]

Just a bit?

-Frank

 

[Thanee]

That's why I put the '...' there!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Drasmir]

Wow, failed to notice that shrew to manticore example there Frank. Thanks for pointing that one out. It does cause problems when they state that P.A.O. is like Polymorph and that in turn is like Alter Self. Apparently that is not really the case. Man, I could really go nuts with a spell like that.

A bit over the top??? Yes, WAY over the top (but my DM doesn't allow it anyway <sigh>). So much for my munchkin powers (unless I can somehow slip it passed my DM that I have suddenly become a Titan... hmmmm )

Thanks for the posts Thanee and Frank!

 

[Iku Rex]

Polymorph Any Object is like Polymorph except that you can transform any creature or object into another [creature or object].

So if you are targetting a medium creature it is a creature, so you can transform it into a Titan - because that falls into the category "any creature". You can also turn it into an indoor fern because that falls into the category "any object".

It does not follow. Any creature or object can be transformed into another [creature or object]. It does not say "into any other creature or object" - there is plenty of room for limitations.

For example, polymorph says "you change the willing subject into another form of living creature". Does this, in your opinion, mean that polymorph can change a subject into any living creature?




To the OP: I recommend following the rules in alter self/polymorph. IMO the shrew-manticore example is a mistake, as it contradicts the "like polymorph" part of the spell (as a general rule a table is less reliable, according to the errata file). Not to mention that it makes he spell absurdly broken.

 

[FrankTrollman]

For example, polymorph says "you change the willing subject into another form of living creature". Does this, in your opinion, mean that polymorph can change a subject into any living creature?

Subject to any additional restrictions on the spell, that is exactly what it means.

Polymorph has a number of additional restrictions - PAO does not. That's why it is an 8th level spell. Although, I think it is somewhat overpowered even then.

-Frank

 

[Iku Rex]

Does this, in your opinion, mean that polymorph can change a subject into any living creature? .

Subject to any additional restrictions on the spell, that is exactly what it means.

So, "that's exactly what it means, except that it doesn't mean that"?

The whole point of your argument was that there couldn't be any "additional restrictions" on PaO, since it said "any creature or object into another". (And therefore the "like polymorph" part of the spell should be ignored.)