What Spells give the DM the most headache...

[WizarDru]

Scry and Teleport is still pretty bad in 3.5. I can't really justify each villain to have access to counter magic or items that prevent scrying. But since neither have the PCs, I can always hit them back the same way. However, this vastly changes the way the game is being played to a strategical spellcasting contest. I'm afraid this is going to lose its appeal soon

Any wise NPC would have access to some lead, and have some specially prepared anti-scrying rooms. Lead isn't that expensive, and any powerful noble would probably make sure to have some.

As per the SRD: "Lead sheeting or magical protection blocks a scrying spell, and you sense that the spell is so blocked."

I've seen Miracle and Wish used, and generally they're not as powerful as they might at first seem. Many high-level spells, like Maze or Imprisonment, seem much nastier than the work out in practical use to be.

One spell that sits unused, like the Crazy uncle sitting at the table that everyone tries to ignore, is Mord's Disjunction. I haven't used it, yet, and neither have the players...until the first time I actually use it, and then all bets are off, I suspect. Not that it matters too much to the DM, who has far less to lose.

Most of the spells I don't like or denied have come from Defenders of the Faith or Masters of the Wild. For example, I kicked Miasma to the curb the first time I saw it. My players vetoed Mandragora after the druid tried to cast it...and was the beginning of the institution of a player spell-committee.

 

[Shallown]

Originally Posted by Shallown
I think Freedom of Movement is a pain in the hiney spell. It shuts down so much including Grappling which as levels rise so do the numbers of Grapple monsters. I can live with it but sometimes it screws up an encounter.

Later

Altalazar

How does it screw up an encounter? Or are you talking about where you want to force the players to be captured or immobilized no matter how cleverly they might try and get out of it?



I'm Sorry Altalazar but that sounds, to me, like your accusing me, even if in a sarcastic manner, of railroading or being a overly difficult Dm.

Forgive me if I am somehow misunderstanding your messages intent.


What I mean it screws up encounters like a hold spell does against a fighter opponent. It negates his ability to challenge the party. A held Fighter "Big Bad" is not a challenge. Freedom Of movement, of late, has negated my ability to challenge my players. Not to stop their cleverness but instead to spark it. I don't know how much cleverness is needed to use Freedom of movement to avoid a big Grappling based monster. I don't like changing my encounters illogically to Nerf the players abilities but in the end part of our fun is me challenging them not letting them walk through encounters all the time. I am only saying that particular spell makes it difficult at times. I was answering the question asked.

Thanks
Later

 

[Jolly Giant]

You know, I've never really had a problem with any particular spells. Sure, occasionally I've been caught off guard with a clever or unexpected use, but so what? That is what makes the game interesting. If I could anticipate and neutralize ahead of time everything the PCs could do, it wouldn't be very fun.

I just adapt to what gets used. I don't have a problem with it - that's probably why I think the concerns with high magic are so silly. I don't design games based on railroading. I just let the chips fall where they may. And I come up with my own world.

Phew... I was beginning to think I was the only one to feel that way!

Since 3.5 came out, there isn't a single spell I can see the slightest problem with! Not one released by WotC, anyway. Spells from third party publishers is another matter, very few of those make it into my game without editing.

The thing to keep in mind when DMing a high-level party is that if a spell is known to be very effective, then any intelligent enemy will have some kind of defense against that spell.

Another good tip is to know the rules! No offense everybody, this is well-meant advice. Those of you out there who think Invisibility is a problem, take a look at the PHB description of the Spot skill. The DC to detect an invisible creature within 20 ft. is 20! IMC, I have one PC (lvl 29) with +48 on her Spot skill...

 

[Darklone]

I have a level 10 char (druid) with more than +20, does that count?

 

[Planesdragon]

The ones that give me a headache are Wish, Miracle, and limited Wish.
I hate dealing with them, and the fact that my players leave them so friggin open ended is annoying.

They shouldn't be annoying. Wish and Limited Wish have clearly defined limits, and Miracle is either "I want a free wish" or "do something random and take my XP." Some examples:

"I wish I had a million gold coins."

"Poof - a man walks up to you. 'Mr.PC, I'm here to inform you that one million gold coins were found in an account in your name in the royal vault. The King thanks you for your donation, as he had to use your gold to pay for the war.'"

"I wish I was stronger than a dragon"

Poof--a small, tiny 8-str dragon shows up.

 

[Wolffenjugend]

Back in 2E, I really hated hallucinatory terrain. I remember a druid casting it in an underground setting and all the baddies failed their saves. So I had a bunch of monsters who had never seen trees running around bumping into them, trying to climb them, not being able to see the PCs, etc. It was a royal pain in the arse. Luckily, the druid realized the havoc it caused and didn't cast it much after that.

In 3e, I don't like how windwalk is almost a default spell for the P's clerics. I started using aerial combat rules, which helps cut down on abuse.

I've put limits on teleport-type spells and planar travel. I wholeheartedly concur with the poster who said he makes his players provide stats for summon monster spells - no stats, no spell.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

As a player, I think I really annoyed my DM when I used (3.0) two Polymorph Other spells in the same round to turn a Red Dragon that was seriously ripping through the party into a small frog.

He got his revenge by having us search for the damn thing after it had gone and hidden in a pool of water. But we got it eventually.

 

[nsruf]

Any wise NPC would have access to some lead, and have some specially prepared anti-scrying rooms. Lead isn't that expensive, and any powerful noble would probably make sure to have some.

And spend all their time in the room? I think not.

The last time my party used scry+teleport for hit-and-run, the npc was far away from his home and not expecting them to meddle in his affairs right now. So I decided he had no protection up (although he could cast misdirection, I decided he wouldn't do that every day without a good reason).

The saving grace was player stupidity - despite having greater scrying, they only gave him and his surroundings a cursory examination. As a result, they assaulted him in the stronghold of group of mages who are explicitly neutral and willing to help all parties in the current conflict. And they got caught after killing two of the mages, too <evil laugh>

Still, I don't want my game to degenerate into a series of spells and countermeasures, and it seems headed this way pretty fast. How fun is it to have to come up with a different explanation why villain X can't be scried on every single session?

 

[Ferox4]

Reading through this thread makes me realize (once again) how subjective things are in D&D. There are always counter measures to abusive spells if you deem they need to be controlled - that's part of being a DM. Improvisation may be the single most important ability a DM has to possess. It has taken me years to get to that point - and heck, I'm still learning.

Someone mentioned Fly - I think the 3.5 changes have made it much more manageable.
Wind Walk can be troublesome, but there are ways around that: Storms, spells that produce wind effects, antimagic, dispel magic, aerial creatures.

High-level divinations can bog a game down pretty quick - you better have the Commune questions ready, cuz if you don't the moment you pause for more than a few seconds the spell ends. It's also a matter of knowing your world intimately so that you can produce answers off the cuff.

i will admit that scry can be abused. We still use the 3.0 rule for detecting the sensor - giving both PCs and NPC the chance to dispel it - as well as the Will save.

Just some thoughts

 

[Hjorimir]

Don't you guys scry n' fry the players as well? Teleport and Scry are no big deal once you come to accept them for what they are: tools that both sides have.