What to do about the 15-minute work day?

[mlund]

The mechanics, themselves, are the evidence. They're not in dispute. What's in dispute is whether they should be fixed, themselves, or left to each DM to work around.

True enough. There is no incentive innate to the system to reward doing anything other than Nova-Rest-Nova. It's just the macro version of searching every 10' square for traps so automatically that the local inn doesn't even need to pay someone to sweep their floors anymore.

The DM or adventure writer has to invent one. Most commonly the invention is some sort of punishment / stick. Players are generally tolerant of this as long as it doesn't upset their sense of verisimilitude or fair-play.

How well that sells to any given player rests entirely on the act of sale between the player and the DM and/or writer.

On the other hand, if the system addressed the innate defect and had some sort of reward to encourage players to accept the additional risk that deviating from the Nova-Rest-Nova macro entails, there'd be a lot less need for sticks.

- Marty Lund

 

[MarkB]

I don't think people are denying it exists what most of seem to be saying is that it is not necessarily a mechanical issue and that advice may be the best way to fix it.

I wasn't responding to most people. I was responding to one question from a specific person who was questioning whether the problem existed.

 

[Elf Witch]

I wasn't responding to most people. I was responding to one question from a specific person who was questioning whether the problem existed.

bill91 was not questioning if it exists he was questioning Tony Vargas on why is it not anecdotal evidence when it is people complaining about an issue but it is anecdotal when we say it does not happen in our games.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually, that was bild91, not me.

The way I see it, though, is that at best this is a thread of dueling anecdotes. My personal experience leads me to believe that- while the problem exists for some gamers- it is:

1) so vanishingly rare that mechanical changes are more likely to harm the game than help it.

2) extant even in games with mechanics that supposedly correct it, so mechanical solutions would seem to be ineffective.

The actual truth of the matter can't be seen without a real and rigorous statistical analysis- with controls from D&D and other RPGs- and that isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

 

[Elf Witch]

Actually, that was bild91, not me.

It is now becoming a blur. All of it.

I just reread everything you posted and I still don't see how anyone can claim that you are saying it is not an issue. Unless of course I am losing my ability to comprehend languages.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

One could fairly say I see it as an issue, but don't see it as an ISSUE.

In a way, someone could view me as the doctor who has been told "My wrist hurts when I do this", and responds, "Well, don't do that."

But as someone who grew up in a medical family, and who is also old enough to start seeing accumulating health issues (for myself and my parents), sometimes the answer really is "don't do that" because the treatment may be as problematic as the ailment...or worse.

 

[Elf Witch]

One could fairly say I see it as an issue, but don't see it as an ISSUE.

In a way, someone could view me as the doctor who has been told "My wrist hurts when I do this", and responds, "Well, don't do that."

But as someone who grew up in a medical family, and who is also old enough to start seeing accumulating health issues (for myself and my parents), sometimes the answer really is "don't do that" because the treatment may be as problematic as the ailment...or worse.

This is how I look at it too.

 

[Minigiant]

That is why the treatment should be optional and ignorable

Advice if you want it
Fixes if you want it

 

[mlund]

That is why the treatment should be optional and ignorable

Advice if you want it
Fixes if you want it

Nah, apparently on this particular issue it's just non-negotiable to take up rule-book space for a module. Some people consider it a "non-issue" due to their ad hoc play-style decisions so it just must not be. I mean, that's precious real-estate we could be dedicating to a bigger list of Vancian Spellcasting Options, am I right?

- Marty Lund

 

[billd91]

Nah, apparently on this particular issue it's just non-negotiable to take up rule-book space for a module. Some people consider it a "non-issue" due to their ad hoc play-style decisions so it just must not be. I mean, that's precious real-estate we could be dedicating to a bigger list of Vancian Spellcasting Options, am I right?

- Marty Lund

Nah, wandering monster tables.