What use for OSRIC?

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I think OSRIC is a great idea, and if it helps publishers and fans to put out material I can use, them I'm all for it. I'm completely uninterested in any personal squabbles -- especially message board squabbles. That kind of stuff makes me roll my eyes, frankly.

As far as legal issues, I'm no lawyer, but I don't see that OSRIC infringes on anyones copyrights or trademarks. OSRIC carefully avoids the use of other peoples' trademarks. OSRIC uses the OGL, so there's no legal question about the use of open game content terms, etc. And it's perfectly legal to publish game rules/algorithms, which are not subject to copyright, so long as you use your own "artistic presentation" of those rules (i.e. you present the rules in your own words, etc). If there's a legitimate legal challenge, it will be decided by the courts. But it looks like OSRIC has been created with potential legal questions in mind, and that the authors have consulted attorneys/solicitors, so I don't doubt that they're better informed on the matter than most of us.

I know that I'm pleased that old-school material I can use with my C&C game is coming to market. Dragonsfoot has some very nicely produced PDFs that are freely available. Troll Lord Games is putting out C&C modules (of course). Goodman Games has released some C&C modules, and their 1E version of Iron Crypt of the Heretics, created as a Gen Con special, sold out within the first hour or so (a small print run, but still a good indication that there's a market for such products). My pre-ordered copy of Pied Piper's Cairn of the Skeleton King arrived this afternoon. It's beautiful. I've also pre-ordered Expeditious Retreat Press's Pod Caverns of the Sinister Shroom, which is an OSRIC module (already available in PDF, but I wanted a print version).

Now, from the list, above, it's obvious that OSRIC isn't the only way to produce material for old-school or "advanced" games, but I'm glad it's out there, and I know that I'll be buying good OSRIC material, if it's produced.
 

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I think I might be able to clear up a bit of the mystery regarding supposed "publisher blacklisting" of OSRIC contributors:

People who aren't familiar with "Halaster" from other sites might not realize that he is the founder of something he calls the Back in Print Project, the goal of which is to eventually release new 1E & 2E AD&D material as free pdfs. Despite the fact that in approx. 3 years since its launch it hasn't actually published anything yet, I'm sure Halaster is considering BIP a publisher for his purposes here. And since it wouldn't surprise me one bit that Hal himself would've "blacklisted" anyone who works on an OSRIC project from ever working on any of his BIP projects, you can probably all put two and two together...
 

All I could do is repeat things I heard at GenCon. Essentially, until OSRIC is challenged, or clearly not going to be challenged, use OSRIC at your own risk.

Since I am a C&Cer, and SHROOMS rule! I hope OSRIC works out.
 

Something else to keep in mind when it comes to Mr. Blackcloak is the fact that he has bragged over at the Raven's Keep that he's going to go around to various rpg sites to stir up trouble and "attack" OSRIC and its authors:

Halaster Blackcloak said:
They can ignore the challenge all they like, but by refusing to address it, they admit defeat. What we should do is ask it on a larger forum such as Dragonsfoot. Bring it up in a plain, factual manner. Why is it needed or relevant?

Of course, the Bunker Appeasers or the Pansy Admin at DF will lock it up tighter than the airlock on the Space Shuttle almost immediately. But still, I think it needs to be posted. At ENWorld too, and everywhere that OSRIC is being discussed.

In fact, I may just go do this. Hell, I can sacrifice one of my secret IDs at DF for such a lofty purpose.
(emphasis added)

Halaster Blackcloak said:
So, when the question comes up or they have a project that is questionable in many ways, I'll take the attack back to them. That's my policy, and it ain't changing any time soon. All's fair in war, right?

Halaster Blackcloak said:
So now you're saying the ENWorld mods are on our side as well?

Not saying anything of the sort. I've never posted there, and my first post questions not only the product you offer, but it also brings up the issue of your bad reputations in some circles, and so of course I'm the bad guy and the underdog, and with you having known these people you will tend to have supporters there. Plus they are selling your OSRIC stuff on their site, so that has to be considered as well. Frankly, I find the place irritating and tedious and I avoid it.

I knew posting there would stir up some sh*t and that most of it would rain down on me, but what the Bunker Cult does not seem to understand (and never seems to be able to wrap their mind around) is the fact that I don't care about that. I have plenty of supporters and I go do my own thing my own way and I don't care who likes it or does not like it. I guess that concept is lost on a group of people who require validation for their hobbies and therefore surround themselves with similar people in protected bunkers and turn their hobby into a religion.
(emphasis added)

Raven's Keep Post #1

Raven's Keep Post #2

To read the above links, you'd have to register at that site, as its a password protected bunker where you can't simply read some of the posts as a visitor. If the mods here need evidence that Halaster determined ahead of time to stir up trouble on RPG boards across the net, I have the threads in a pdf file that they can look at. He (as well as Traveller) has made posts attacking OSRIC on at least one other site as well (Mortality), and are talking about doing so on other sites. Halaster isn't able to post at DF because he's banned from there, but one of his sock puppets will probably be making an appearance there soon to rail against OSRIC.

I think its clear from what he has posted here, and the fact that he stated openly at the Raven's Keep that he was going to try and "stir up some sh*t" about OSRIC at Enwurld and other sites, that Halaster didn't come here just to get a discussion going. He came to troll. That's what trolls do. And that's why Halaster gets banned from so many rpg forums. He's not satisfied with spending his angst against the authors of OSRIC over at the Raven's Keep, so he has to go around to other sites to plant his poisoned seeds, hoping that flame wars will spring up as he sows.
 
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Particle_Man said:
On a happier note,

I was looking over OSRIC just now and came across the Charisma table. I remember this. Where you could have 1 henchman even with a charisma of 3, but likely the s.o.b. would kill you in your sleep for your boots. :)

That said, have I missed something or is there no provision for lowering ability scores that are too high to be of a certain race? If I have a chr of 18 (Adjusted to 16 as a half-orc) am I too pretty to be a half-orc, or could I voluntarily lower it to 12?

I also note that if you roll a 3 or 4 for chr, you cannot be a half-orc, since your charisma would go down to 1 or 2, which is below the racial minimum. Perhaps a good thing. With a chr of 1, my lone henchman would likely sacrifice me to dark gods, given half a chance. :)

Voluntarily lowering your ability scores is a matter for the GM's discretion, as correctly noted above. Personally, if I were your GM, I'd let you lower your Charisma to 12 if you really so desperately wanted to be a half-orc, but the reason why many of these things aren't codified in the text is because it's for GMs to decide, and it's so much simpler if the rules don't give ammunition to players who want to disagree.

In other words, the design philosophy was, simpler = better and it isn't necessary to have a rule for everything.
 

Henry said:
Actually, I'm going to take a different stance on this "unsavory characters" business: Let's drop any character aspertions on the creators. We mods don't fancy ENWorld becoming a place for name-dragging or mud-slinging, even if people start posting supposed proof, etc. -- All it does is deflect from actual discussion and make the thread nothing but a shooting match.

So I ask fellow posters, including Halaster, to do this -- please drop the character assertions. If you have something to say about the whole OSRIC concept - it's not needed, it's legally shaky, etc. by all means let's talk about it. But no more mudslinging or even, "in 2001 so-and-so did this" types of facts. I really don't feel like cleaning up after a mud-wrestling match, no matter how attractive the contestants, OK? :)

Thanks, all.

One could point out that Henry is speaking as an admin at the site. If one wants to make a post on any subject, they should be posting on the subject, not questioning anyone's character. Henry or any moderator (even this post) is not a "suggestion", although we frequently couch our terms in suggestive terms like, "If everyone wants this thread to stay open."

To do otherwise is to invite banning, which is something we as moderators/admins have been loathe to do.

Finally, please do not bring cross-board animosity here. This is neither Dragonsfoot, the WotC forums, RPG.net, nor any other forum. This is ENWorld. Long threads full of vitriol over the real or imagined slights from other boards do not make for pleasant reading for any of us. If this thread is to continue, please re-read Henry's post in context, then read mine.

Again, this is not a suggestion.
 

Dinkeldog: since the entire thread started with cross-board sniping, it is impossible to discuss the subject without mentioning the underlying issues - not to mention that they provides a good insight into the "whys" of this thread and the modus operandi of the OP. It is not an irrelevant issue. Although I am not a moderator here, and it is thus not my duty to dictate moderation policy, it seems that the whole thread would fall into a verboten area - in which case it should be locked and the legalities of OSRIC discussed in another thread.

YMMV, IMHO, OMGWTFBBQ and other fancy acronyms may apply.
 

Melan said:
Although I am not a moderator here, and it is thus not my duty to dictate moderation policy, it seems that the whole thread would fall into a verboten area - in which case it should be locked and the legalities of OSRIC discussed in another thread.


Though I had hoped by my post above to turn this thread in that direction (just the need and legalities) you're probably right. Add to that Halaster claims that his objective was met in this thread (stirring up discussion) then I'd say he accomplished what he set out to do, and the thread has outlived its usefulness.

I'll say one last thing, though: If Halaster or anyone else wants to stir up anything OTHER than polite discussion, they won't have a second chance to succeed. Period.

Thread Closed.
 

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