What was so bad about the Core 2e rules? Why is it the red-headed stepchild of D&D?

[mxyzplk]

So it matches most SF/F novels and the New York Times. Not bad company. Is there some reason a set of game rules should aspire to the complexity of Faulkner?

I'm not sure one can call High Gygaxian prose Faulkner. His mode of discourse was certainly idiosyncratic and entertaining, but more "adult?" I have a feeling if someone wandered up to us and spoke like Gygax wrote, we'd think "who's this Stan-Lee-on-crystal-meth joker and where are his meds?" My high school friends and I made a game out of identifying words common to D&D that it would be best if you never used in polite conversation. "Eldritch..." "Multiverse..."

 

[Shroomy]

In middle school, I used the word "myriad" and "plethora" (I think I alternated them) all the time in my compositions, thanks to AD&D.

 

[Herschel]

In middle school, I used the word "myriad" and "plethora" (I think I alternated them) all the time in my compositions, thanks to AD&D.

Would you say you had a plethora of pinatas?

 

[Shroomy]

Would you say you had a plethora of pinatas?

Sure, why not.

 

[justanobody]

The time I used milieu in something in school, I had to "rewrite it without making up words".

Got sent to the office one time for arguing saying "melee" when the teacher insisted I meant "waylay" and would not stop arguing with her.

Maybe that is why early days of D&D people wanted to see it gone because it was doing more to teach than teachers could, because how dumb the teachers were? It really had nothing to do with naked women or demons and devils/witchcraft.

Look out the school aged children are learning things! Won't someone think of the children!

 

[GSHamster]

I don't think 2E was that bad, and I do have a soft spot for it, as it was the system I started with. However, I think that it hung around a bit too long before getting refreshed, so we just got a bit tired of it. In some ways I think 3E/4E might have had the opposite problem, in that the refresh came about a couple years too early, before the majority of the audience had exhausted 3E.

Also, 2E had a lot of eccentricities, that made 3E so blindingly brilliant in contrast. Things like Thac0 vs the d20 mechanic. Mathematically identical, but simply easier with 3E. Similarly the unified XP chart and multi-classing rules were clear and simple improvements over 2E. Also the whole OGL aspect was new and thought-provoking, and very attractive to the technical, anti-corporate mindset of many gamers.

So people had been playing 2E for so long, and were a bit tired of it, and the refresh seemed very much the new hotness with unified mechanics and the OGL, so people were happy to try out the new system.

 

[Spatula]

Thing is how much more complex was 1es language. Were either of them complex enough in order for this to be a real issue? And that is where I say nope. It is sort of like saying bench pressing 50lbs is easier than bench pressing 60lbs. Well yeah sure, but they are both really easy.

It had a strong authors voice, and I can see people missing that, but more difficult meh.

Yeah, it's a little odd seeing people talk about books that were comprehensible to eight year olds being "adult." The 1e DMG is an interesting read because of its idiosyncratic style, not its writing level.

Got sent to the office one time for arguing saying "melee" when the teacher insisted I meant "waylay" and would not stop arguing with her.

Well, just about any kind of reading is good for building your vocabulary. D&D and RPGs in general certainly give you an interesting selection of words seldom used (and seldom needed) in normal conversation... although a lot of those words have infiltrated the popular consciousness now via D&D-derived video games. MMO and CRPG players almost certainly know what "melee" is now.

 

[justanobody]

But an English teacher refusing to look up the word in context or to even find out what it means, and then to think I would be using melee wrongly for waylay, for me to even know what waylay means and not know what melee means when she knows she hasn't taught them?

Teachers just don't like being wrong and when a teacher is wrong the student is at fault for it and should be punished!

Anyway the office sent me back and called the teacher to the office and sent her back to the classroom with a dictionary to look up words she didn't understand before arguing with students.

So apparently 1st edition was too hard for teachers but easy for kids. Kind of like childproof bottles are hard for adults to open, but easy for children to open.

So if 2nd was made simpler in the way of words it was so adults could understand them.

 

[Spatula]

Teachers just don't like being wrong and when a teacher is wrong the student is at fault for it and should be punished!

Just the bad ones. I've corrected teachers before and never had any experiences like yours.

 

[justanobody]

Your location may be the reason, but we are veering a touch off topic.