What was so bad about the Core 2e rules? Why is it the red-headed stepchild of D&D?

[billd91]

I never said that 2e was anything like a failure but I do think, as a company sustaining product line, it had played out. And I think the only way for an edition to play longer would be to slow down the rate of publication of new stuff to prevent early saturation of the market. So in many ways, it does come down to the company managing the brand better.

1e had a relative dearth of new rules, campaign settings, and supplements by comparison and so it never seems to have same reputation as 2e for too much chaff despite being, in many ways, a less polished and playable rules system.

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Depends on when you started playing 2e. For a couple of years, they were simply absent from the system, and might have remained that way had TSR not listened to the fans and grown a pair.

I realise this is coming a little late and someone else may have already responded, but this is not true. Baatezu and Tanar'ri were entries in the very first 2E Monstrous Manual.

 

[AllisterH]

If things are being done right, IMHO, each edition of a game should last longer than the one before. The rate of change for any product should slow over time.

Er, why is that? In fact, I would have thought it would be the opposite as that shows a healthy development side....

 

[Spatula]

I realise this is coming a little late and someone else may have already responded, but this is not true. Baatezu and Tanar'ri were entries in the very first 2E Monstrous Manual.

Ah, but the 2e Monstrous Manual was not the very first 2e monster "book". The Monstrous Compendium came out in 1989 with the initial release of 2e, and according to this, the outer planes supplement (which contained the demons & devils) wasn't released until 2 years later.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Well, consider that 12 years is a hell of a long time for a single edition of a line to exist. 1e and 2e both lasted for roughly the same length of time, and that was a very, very long time by RPG design and development standards. By contrast, consider that Vampire and Shadowrun each went through three editions *during* 2e's history. GURPS went through two editions, IIRC (the second and third).

So if the longest product life of any regularly printed edition of any RPG is "failure," I hope we get more of that -- it's pretty damn good.

Yup. A decade plus is champ for RPG editions. Both 1e and 2e made it that long (in fact, 1e lasted a bit longer than may be realized since it was still being printed to order from distributers *after* the 2e launch).

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Ah, but the 2e Monstrous Manual was not the very first 2e monster "book". The Monstrous Compendium came out in 1989 with the initial release of 2e, and according to this, the outer planes supplement (which contained the demons & devils) wasn't released until 2 years later.

I'll be damned (Monstrous Compendium was what I meant, not Monstrous Manual, which appears to be some sort of compilation of several Monstrous Compendiums)... I started playing AD&D in 1982, and so was around for the release of 2E. I purchased most of those early Monstrous Compendiums, and could have sworn Tanar'ri and Baatezu were in the first Monstrous Compendium. That's what I get for relying on a 20 year old memory...

 

[RFisher]

Er, why is that? In fact, I would have thought it would be the opposite as that shows a healthy development side....

It seems pretty self-evident to me. Healthy development means that the longer you’ve been developing, the less there is in need of additional development. I’m not sure how to explain it further.

 

[M.L. Martin]

If things are being done right, IMHO, each edition of a game should last longer than the one before. The rate of change for any product should slow over time.

This may be true in the abstract, but in this specific case, you have to consider the radical changes in communications and publishing that have taken place in the past decade or two. Also, design goals have changed--2E placed an emphasis on backwards compatability to a degree that was foreign to 3E, and even moreso to 4E, for example.

 

[Staffan]

I'll be damned (Monstrous Compendium was what I meant, not Monstrous Manual, which appears to be some sort of compilation of several Monstrous Compendiums)... I started playing AD&D in 1982, and so was around for the release of 2E. I purchased most of those early Monstrous Compendiums, and could have sworn Tanar'ri and Baatezu were in the first Monstrous Compendium. That's what I get for relying on a 20 year old memory...

Nope. The closest were Guardian Daemons in MC2 (which, for the most part, was hideously illustrated).

 

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

Nope. The closest were Guardian Daemons in MC2 (which, for the most part, was hideously illustrated).

Yes, I know they weren't introduced until later. I think you misread my post.