What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Micah Sweet]

Phobia means fear or hatred. And in psychology, that means it's a type of anxiety, and people often make jokes about what causes them anxiety, as a way to control that anxiety.

And I don't think that McGibster feared or hated gay people back then or now. I think they were following societal trends that made that sort of joke--you can't trust gay men around you because they will have sex with you no matter what--"acceptable".

Since that sort of joke isn't OK now (either as a gay joke or as a rape joke), it's considered to be bad, or at least in poor taste, for writers to include the lead-ups for those sort of jokes. If people want to make those jokes on their own, you can't stop them, but it doesn't mean it's OK for other people to do the set-up (dog whistles) for those jokes.


But you can claim my argument failed because you disagreed with it?


So you're saying that one could very easily make a Dark Sun game without any sort of slavery in it and it would still be Dark Sun?

Not as we know it, no.

 

[Faolyn]

You can add room without removing anything. That's the great thing about books. You can add pages of stuff to the end. Heck, they could release Dark Sun unchanged and also release a totally new setting with all kinds of added material.

Or you can also remove the bad material to make the rest of the material better.

 

[AnotherGuy]

The wheels on the bus...

EDIT: It may be more constructive a debate if the persons taking issue with controversial content actually listed in which circumstances they would permit controversial content.

 

[Thourne]

The wheels on the bus...

EDIT: It may be more constructive a debate if the persons taking issue with controversial content actually listed in which circumstances they would permit controversial content.

Included by the publisher specifically, correct?
Just asking for clarity.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or you can also remove the bad material to make the rest of the material better.

As long as we can all agree on what the bad material is.

 

[Faolyn]

Which Adventurer's League adventure were you forced to either run or play that had problematic content, and did they hold a gun to your head or just apply electro shock pads?

I'm pretty sure that what @Hussar is saying is that you don't always know who you're going to game with and how everyone is going to react to certain things. You may play with one person who gets seriously upset by the inclusion of giant spiders that were part of a routine encounter. You may play with another person who decides to capture the bandit and then insist on RPing how they torture the bandit to death and eat the corpse.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm pretty sure that what @Hussar is saying is that you don't always know who you're going to game with and how everyone is going to react to certain things. You may play with one person who gets seriously upset by the inclusion of giant spiders that were part of a routine encounter. You may play with another person who decides to capture the bandit and then insist on RPing how they torture the bandit to death and eat the corpse.

Very true. The answer to that is talking to your players before the game starts, not unilaterally removing any content that some might consider offensive.

 

[Bedrockgames]

One: I've never played it. My family didn't play those kinds of games where I was a kid (although I did play TSR's Dungeon board game), and I don't think any of my friends are interested in playing in them now.

Two: Board games aren't RPGs. Most people aren't playing those sort of games in order to role-play their meeple or even give them any personality. They're playing them so that their side will win. While it's possible, even likely, that there are people who play the Axis side because they are pro-Axis powers, I imagine the vast majority of people are just playing it as a strategic board game that happens to take place during WWII. The actual game itself could take place in any other part of history (there's an Axis & Allies WWI) or include fantastic elements (there's apparently an offshoot game, Axis & Allies & Zombies) and it wouldn't really matter.

Axis and Allies is a great game but probably not going to shed much light on this topic (as RPGs are so different). It is for people who are into WWII, for people who are into strategy board games and war simulators. It has an interesting element where you allocate resources into different things (for example production versus research and development). That stuff is pretty common now but at the time it came out, I don't remember too many games getting the feel it got. In terms of playing the Axis, it is a purely strategic game so no one is taking on the role in a way that is disturbing. I played it for years when I was younger and it was just a war game to us. You might get some psychos who decide to use it as an outlet for anti-semitism or something but they'd be doing that whether access and allies existed or not. The people I knew who played were both very knowledgeable of WWII battles and strategies (i.e. guys who used to read world war II magazines) and usually quite familiar with the atrocities surrounding the Nazi regime (and not at all sympathies to them). It is a game that appeals to history buffs and people who like WWII documentaries.

 

[Thourne]

I'm pretty sure that what @Hussar is saying is that you don't always know who you're going to game with and how everyone is going to react to certain things. You may play with one person who gets seriously upset by the inclusion of giant spiders that were part of a routine encounter. You may play with another person who decides to capture the bandit and then insist on RPing how they torture the bandit to death and eat the corpse.

That is bad faith gaming unless the entire table is okay with it.
A fade to black moment/scene swipe is acceptable but no one has to tolerate what 1 other player "insists on" when it makes them uncomfortable. That is a violation of the social contract. A simple disregard for decency and respect. If the offending player dosen't understand that after explaining it to them, well you have a chair to fill.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That is bad faith gaming unless the entire table is okay with it.
A fade to black moment/scene swipe is acceptable but no one has to tolerate what 1 other player "insists on" when it makes them uncomfortable. That is a violation of the social contract. A simple disregard for decency and respect. If the offending player dosen't understand that after explaining it to them, well you have a chair to fill.

Yeah and X-cards exist for a reason, particularly this kind of thing. When I first heard of them, I have to admit I did roll my eyes and think "bah kids today" but then I thought about them more, then a bit more, and now I use them and encourage others to, so yeah!