What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Thourne]

If your RPGs carry with it any significant risks you're pretty hardcore.

Actually just initiating a combat encounter could trigger someone with PTSD on the wrong day.
The building layout was accidentally to similar, or something someone said was to close to what someone somewhere said on a bad bad day.
Not really anything has to be hardcore to cause it.
I remember an account from a vet who suffered a panic attack when driving down the road and seeing a plastic bag blowing across it. Instantly triggered them like it was an IED.
The mind is a maze.

Edit: That said yah, none of that makes the table hardcore

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'm not sure if the RPG is based on the comic or the television series, but some of Free League's other licensed games pull on multiple sources. In the television series, I think the Governor threatened Maggie, but it didn't go any further than that. In a later season, one of the Savior's men starts to molest Sahsa, and Negan kills him for it. In the second season, our heroes capture a guy named Randall (I think) after Rick kills a few of his group. Randall tells our protagonist that he just met up with this group, and talks about how they met a father and daughter the other day, assaulted the daughter, and left them both where they found them, but he assures them he's not like that.

Which brings me to another problematic aspect. What do you do with a prisoner? The protagonist learn that Randall is a local went to the same school with Maggie. He doesn't know where she lives, but this probably isn't something that would be difficult for them to figure out. What do you do with Randall? He hangs out with a bunch of rapist, some of whom tried to find out where our protagonist were based out of and started a conflict that resulted in their deaths. Is he like them? Or did he hook up with this group to survive and didn't realize they were monsters until it was too late? Can you just let him go with a stern warning not to come back?

If your RPGs carry with it any significant risks you're pretty hardcore.

The walking dead is very much about loss of humanity and the relinquishing of society's morals in order to survive, and it is set in a world where sociopaths have a survival advantage. I think most tables are not going to want to get into the sexual stuff. That isn't something I would want to get into at my table----something like sexual assault would be a pretty firm line for us (I don't care if the book mentions it as it would be part of the setting, I just wouldn't want any of that role-played or have it happen to PCs or NPCs in my games). But I would expect a game that is emulating the themes of walking dead to get into questions like what do you do with a prisoner (and in the Walking Dead Universe, letting a prisoner go can come back to bite you). One thing I would expect a Walking Dead RPG to deal with is how doing things we consider wrong may have either short term advantages or make survival easier. But I would also expect it to be a lot more nuanced than (civilization is over so its okay to be bad now). A bit shift in the comics and show is when they actually start rebuilding and it takes on an almost biblical or early civilization feel. So, at least as far as I got in the series, I saw a lot of it as a loss of the old moral system and the building of a new one for a new time. An RPG trying to capture that kind of world will need some room to take chances (it doesn't haven't to be super edge lord or anything, but it needs to be able to get into adult themes, philosophical questions of morality and it definitely needs a certain amount of moral gray).

I only read up to the mid-100s for issues of the comic and stopped following the show around the 7th season I believe. So maybe it is in different territory. But is a dark, dark setting for sure.

 

[Thourne]

I'm not sure if the RPG is based on the comic or the television series, but some of Free League's other licensed games pull on multiple sources. In the television series, I think the Governor threatened Maggie, but it didn't go any further than that. In a later season, one of the Savior's men starts to molest Sahsa, and Negan kills him for it. In the second season, our heroes capture a guy named Randall (I think) after Rick kills a few of his group. Randall tells our protagonist that he just met up with this group, and talks about how they met a father and daughter the other day, assaulted the daughter, and left them both where they found them, but he assures them he's not like that.

Which brings me to another problematic aspect. What do you do with a prisoner? The protagonist learn that Randall is a local went to the same school with Maggie. He doesn't know where she lives, but this probably isn't something that would be difficult for them to figure out. What do you do with Randall? He hangs out with a bunch of rapist, some of whom tried to find out where our protagonist were based out of and started a conflict that resulted in their deaths. Is he like them? Or did he hook up with this group to survive and didn't realize they were monsters until it was too late? Can you just let him go with a stern warning not to come back?

Ok, this part made me pause. So there are the original comics (it started in comics right?), then the 2 tv shows now, and also video games?
Are those the Telltale games? I think Id seen those? Or something else?

 

[Thourne]

The walking dead is very much about loss of humanity and the relinquishing of society's morals in order to survive, and it is set in a world where sociopaths have a survival advantage. I think most tables are not going to want to get into the sexual stuff. That isn't something I would want to get into at my table----something like sexual assault would be a pretty firm line for us (I don't care if the book mentions it as it would be part of the setting, I just wouldn't want any of that role-played or have it happen to PCs or NPCs in my games). But I would expect a game that is emulating the themes of walking dead to get into questions like what do you do with a prisoner (and in the Walking Dead Universe, letting a prisoner go can come back to bite you). One thing I would expect a Walking Dead RPG to deal with is how doing things we consider wrong may have either short term advantages or make survival easier. But I would also expect it to be a lot more nuanced than (civilization is over so its okay to be bad now). A bit shift in the comics and show is when they actually start rebuilding and it takes on an almost biblical or early civilization feel. So, at least as far as I got in the series, I saw a lot of it as a loss of the old moral system and the building of a new one for a new time. An RPG trying to capture that kind of world will need some room to take chances (it doesn't haven't to be super edge lord or anything, but it needs to be able to get into adult themes, philosophical questions of morality and it definitely needs a certain amount of moral gray).

I only read up to the mid-100s for issues of the comic and stopped following the show around the 7th season I believe. So maybe it is in different territory. But is a dark, dark setting for sure.

I reckon it would be objectively easier to survive if you didn't have those pesky morals and ethics.

 

[Maxperson]

I'd like to be having this discussion based on the actual intent of the individuals involved rather than assumption.
That simple really.
Also, fairly certain I brought up that I disagreed with your interpretation once. Further engagement was due to disagreement with your follow ups. Not really the same thing.


Edit: Let me just add this. I keep returning to this thread because I genuinely want to hear what the individuals involved think to inform myself. It gets much more difficult to do that when the conversation is in bad faith or hostile. I am not trying to "win" anything, whatever that would mean or look like.

For me I'm not trying to win anything, either. I just like clarity and words mean things. Just because people misuse the two words by using them interchangeably does not make them correct when they do so. Misuse like that clouds the intent that you are looking for.

 

[Thourne]

On the Walking Dead it sounds like it is going to be a helluva line to walk in development.
The terrible conduct and horrible situations are apparently part of what makes it compelling viewing but that just dosen't translate well into a good gaming space.

 

[Maxperson]

Apologies the population claims were by Hussar and indeed not you.
Sorry for the mistake.

Edit: I have removed that line from my post. I couldn't see a way to strike it through which I would have prefered so I took it out.
Again my apologies.

2nd Edit: Out of curiosity is there a way to strikethrough text on this board? I prefer to own my mistakes and not erase them.

Highlight the words and hit ctr-s.

 

[Thourne]

Highlight the words and hit ctr-s.

Thanks.
So oldschool works just no button prompt. Got it!

 

[Bedrockgames]

Perhaps you've never seen someone with PTSD have a panic attack at the table? I don't recommend the experience.

Panic attacks are terrible. I suffered from them for years and they are something I do not wish on even my worst enemy (I think until you have experienced one it is difficult to understand how they feel). I also went years suffering from them, not realizing it was due to PTSD. That said, I do think we have to be very careful here about shaping the world or our entertainment around potential triggers. They are not easy to anticipate and they are rarely concrete (not everyone is triggered by the presence of a clear sign or topic for example, it could be the product of a chain of thoughts that are impossible to anticipate and begin with something fairly benign). I think this is something that really needs to be taken case by case. When I was suffering through this, it would have been impossible for me to expect my group to have to work around what was going on with me, so I stopped gaming for a bit, or when I did feel I could game, I played and if I started to feel a problem come on, I would politely leave (in one instance I actually left to go to the emergency room). One thing that can happen when you are experiencing this is you start imposing what is going on with you, on others.

For instance, when this first started happening to me, I couldn't deal with any dark topics on television, in movies, etc. Now I grew up loving dark and violent shows, and horror was my favorite genre, so this was pretty discomforting. I was recuperating staying with family and there was one TV. It would have been discourteous of me to expect everyone to change their viewing habits around myself. So I would leave the room if people wanted to watch something more intense. One thing I know would not have helped me though was people working too much around what triggered me because that would have made it all too easy not to address the issues and start learning to be comfortable with the things that were causing the feeling of panic. There is no one size fits all, but I think on this topic, especially in the gaming community, we think there is one clear answer to this issue and there just isn't. For me the experience has made me very wary of things like trigger warnings and safety tools in RPGs (I do think if something comes up or you have a problem in your group it needs to be handled compassionately, but I am very skeptical of the effect these tools will have-----at the very least I think they would have done more harm to me).

 

[Maxperson]

Thanks.
So oldschool works just no button prompt. Got it!

There is as well, but it's more steps. The 3 vertical dots on the bar at the top drop down some more options. Do that, highlight the words and then click the strike through. It's easier to just highlight and ctrl-s.