What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Faolyn]

No; a benefit of having deities that are active in the world is that they can nip this kind of thing in the bud.

But they don't nip discrimination, sexism, or homophobia in the bud?

STDs and infected wounds can usually be treated in the field by the party Cleric. PTSD: I'll cop to ignoring that one, yes.

And magic can make up for the need for slavery as well.

 

[AnotherGuy]

You're misunderstanding what I wrote.

If you actually care about verisimilitude, then you have to care about other forms of verisimilitude. To move away from medical conditions, do you include rampant sexism and homophobia in your games? Do you include discrimination based on country of origin? Do you have different sects for your fantasy religions that war against each other, where the Reformed Church of Moradin battles against the Orthodox Church Moradin?

Or is this going to be a thing where you say that you don't have to have "everything" be realistic? Because if that's the case, then slavery becomes a fun plot point--just a hook for the PCs to get into the game and a reason for them to fight the bad guys.

Ppl include things into their game that makes sense (verisimilitude) balanced against as to what may be fun or too admin intensive (i.e. some people enjoy encumbrance, others not). Why is this so difficult to understand?

 

[Faolyn]

@Faolyn out of interest if a DM at your table wants you to track iron rations do you demand that you also check to see how many get spoiled during travel (weather, water, age or vermin/insects) and combat (Dragons Breath, falling prone, Gorgon's trample or a kytons missed chain attack)?
And if they say no because they don't want that level of detail then do you object to their diminished verisimilitude?

Why are you asking me? I don't demand that level of verisimilitude.

But if I did, I'd be using Level Up's travel encounters, many of which do involve Supply (rations) being spoiled.

Because with slavery it's usually party goals and adventure paths (DM input) Let's destroy or overthrow the Slave BBEG/Empire and let's rescue the Slave a,b,c
With PTSD it's usually player driven character arcs. Hence I mentioned Bonds Ideals and Flaws.

So basically, including slavery because it's fun.

 

[AnotherGuy]

So basically, including slavery because it's fun.

Yes, it may be fun to roleplay a successful campaign where you overthrow the evil slaving Snake Empire.

Edit: My friend ran a game like this (we were entertainment slaves = gladiators) where the head of the Snake Empire was rumored to be a Marilith based from the description. I suspected we were in the Abyss. Sadly we never got to finish it. Campaign ended prematurely.

 

[Faolyn]

As I've explained to you before, the crux of the issue (insofar as what you and I are discussing) is that slavery is an element of world-building, i.e. it lends itself to how easily disbelief can be suspended when asking to players to invest in the setting.

Except that slavery is also a game mechanic, because you're expected to go off and fight the slavers (or become enslaved, or become slavers). It's not just a background element that can be ignored.

 

[Faolyn]

Yes, it may be fun to roleplay a successful campaign where you overthrow the evil slaving Snake Empire.

And you still don't understand that reducing something that has harmed, and continues to harm, millions of people to a fun pastime may be something that major companies don't want to do?

 

[Alzrius]

Except that slavery is also a game mechanic, because you're expected to go off and fight the slavers (or become enslaved, or become slavers). It's not just a background element that can be ignored.

I'm not sure how you're positing that slavery is a game mechanic; "game mechanics" means things that interact with the rule-features of an RPG, i.e. they involve some sort of resolution system (such as rolling a die) or pertain to resources that need to be managed (i.e. tracking gp or arrows). "The evil empire in the north has a lot of slaves" doesn't meet either criteria, and so is a background element that the PCs can ignore at their leisure. If they don't feel like fighting the slavers, and would rather go dragon-hunting, they can.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It's kind of hard to say what has happened or hasn't happened throughout the history of the world, but now that I think about it, race-influenced slavery isn't entirely unique to slavery in the US.

The concept of “race” arose approximately in the 16th century, shortly before the transatlantic slave trade began.

While the caste system in India isn't exactly slavery, it does come quite close as it severely restricts the freedom and choice of the bottom castes, and it is ultimately based on skin color, though the original ethnic/cultural differences between the peoples that ended up at the top and the bottom respectively have blurred or been forgotten over close to two millenna.

It’s really not that close. A lower caste person pretending to be of a higher caste wouldn’t have been as immediately visually apparent as a black person in American society.

And the rules for treating someone of a higher caste as lower were substantially different from what would happen if a free black person were taken as a slave. Remember, the “slave” had the burden of proof. And who will be allowed to testify on their behalf? Who would risk it?

And I believe that a similar situation still prevails in Mauritania where laws against slavery have been passed to appease the international community but little or nothing has been done to enforce them, and white Berbers/Arabs still effectively keep black Africans in slavery.

That slavery still exists isn’t in question. That there are more people enslaved today than ever before isn’t in question.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Except that slavery is also a game mechanic, because you're expected to go off and fight the slavers (or become enslaved, or become slavers). It's not just a background element that can be ignored.

Isn't a game mechanic a rule? I don't think there are any mechanics for slavery in 5e (other than maybe mental control magic).

 

[AnotherGuy]

And you still don't understand that reducing something that has harmed, and continues to harm, millions of people to a fun pastime may be something that major companies don't want to do?

No I can understand that. But you're pivoting, once again in the argument (some call it goal post shifting)

You've argued genre
You've argued lets be sensitive to victims within the fiction
You've argued let's throw away this colour because we can draw with other colours
You've argued everything or nothing verisimilitude
Others have argued age recommendation (not sure if you have)

Now if you're willing to stick with this pivot, this hopefully final pivot - my meet you half way remark (which was posted some 10-15 pages back) would be, how about a warning label? Eclipse Phase which deals with worse stuff doesn't have one but I'm meeting you half way and asking - are you ok with a warning label for a product that deals with this such as a Dark Sun setting book or a DS adventure? Can you meet me half way?