What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[AnotherGuy]

I mean, thats SURELY what we will find with some quick google/twitter searches right?

I don't even have to go that far - I could just go to my table. And I can confirm what you said rings true for my player and his friend who runs a table himself.

 

[Scribe]

I don't even have to go that far - I could just go to my table. And I can confirm what you said rings true for my player and his friend who runs a table himself.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Mod Note:

If y’all could dial back the snark and jabs, that’d be great.

 

[Faolyn]

As with many of our past discussions, its not that there is a shift, its that there is the removal of what there was before, instead of it being 'in addition'.

Which is fine, but I somehow doubt that lesbians, or gay men, are a monolith who are all in favour of the safe and gentle approach being taken these days, and its just seemingly the older white straight guys who are into things now 'unacceptable'?

I mean, thats SURELY what we will find with some quick google/twitter searches right?

lol

OK, first off, the straight white guys have had dominance for literally hundreds of years so it's time to let other people get a chance get written for. And secondly, there's still tons of stuff out there for the straight white guys. The stuff for other people is, in fact, being written "in addition" to the stuff for the straight white guys. The fact that we're getting equal treatment doesn't mean that you're getting lesser treatment.

And thirdly, nothing is being removed. To go back to Dark Sun, all the older books are still there, slavery and all. You can buy them online. The actual pdf of the original boxed set is on sale for $7 on DM's Guild. It's just that WotC is choosing to not put out anything for it for 5e--like they have chosen to not print new Birthright or Mystara or Council of Wyrms or Nentir Vale for 5e.

 

[Lanefan]

Your entire argument is "Where does it end?", when we can just say "Well, it ends here for the moment". These hyperbolic slippery slopes are just not honest because they assume that this can't be stopped, that all things must and will be judged the same way each time.

It's that "for the moment" clause that raises red flags about slippery slopes and makes people curious about where things might ultimately end.

 

[Scribe]

OK, first off, the straight white guys have had dominance for literally hundreds of years so it's time to let other people get a chance get written for. And secondly, there's still tons of stuff out there for the straight white guys. The stuff for other people is, in fact, being written "in addition" to the stuff for the straight white guys. The fact that we're getting equal treatment doesn't mean that you're getting lesser treatment.

And thirdly, nothing is being removed. To go back to Dark Sun, all the older books are still there, slavery and all. You can buy them online. The actual pdf of the original boxed set is on sale for $7 on DM's Guild. It's just that WotC is choosing to not put out anything for it for 5e--like they have chosen to not print new Birthright or Mystara or Council of Wyrms or Nentir Vale for 5e.

lol so you are doubling down on it being a 'straight white guy' thing?

Fair enough.

 

[ilgatto]

(...)
To be entirely fair, there were a couple of Dragon Magazine articles for 2e.
(...)

Drat.

Ninja'd.

Charles R. Saunders, Out of Africa. Supernatural Creatures from the Dark Continent, in: Dragon 122 (TSR, 1987)

Roger E. Moore, Gaming in the Dark Continent, in: Dragon 122 (TSR, 1987)

Michael John Wybo II, Mythic Races of Africa, in: Dragon 202 (TSR, 1994)

 

[Umbran]

Yeah hard disagree on this attempt to shut down this line of questioning with the so often used "whataboutism" technique when no good reply seems to exist.

I cannot depend my view on the logic on what you personally choose to accept as a "good" reply.

Interestingly, though, I did just give a reply to the point, but in speaking to someone else. To wit, while murder and slavery are both bad, from a standpoint of US history and current culture they are not really equivalent. In effect, Paizo and WotC have stepped back from apples, and you are saying, "But oranges!"

 

[Alzrius]

To be entirely fair, there were a couple of Dragon Magazine articles for 2e.

Which actually just shows that TSR knew that Mythic Africa was a definite possibility that at least some people were interested in, but they never expanded upon it. Not even with a green leatherette book. Because we needed both Charlemagne and the Crusades, but not Africa.

Yeah, that was a huge missed opportunity on their part. They could have gone so much further with those than they did. Sub-Saharan Africa. Aboriginal Australia. Oceania. So much was left on the metaphorical table.

 

[Lanefan]

I'm not saying they are stupid at all. Where am I saying they are stupid?

I am 100% saying they are making (for several years now) a softer, gentler, kid friend game, and art style, and seeking to avoid controversy at all costs.

Thats not the same as saying they are stupid.

(Well ok, their OGL fiasco was really stupid, but thats not what we are discussing.)

They are making their product softer. They feel this is the best path to $$$. We agree? Great.

What's funny is this post - had this forum existed at the time - could be straight from 1991, as a reaction to 2e.

The more things change....