What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

Status
Not open for further replies.

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Tu quoque?
That latin for New Coke? Horrible stuff!

But seriously, no it wasn't. I don't believe that any of those things are wrong to include, so I'm not arguing that two wrongs make a right.
If the concern is that removal of slavery means a removal of "all bad things", clearly, that's not happening, right? Other bad things abound.
As I note above, I don't think inclusion of any of these things is bad. That said, if someone is arguing that something bad should be removed, I feel like they should at least be consistent and want all bad things to be removed. If they don't, then the title of Chris Rock's new special comes to mind.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
... if someone is arguing that something bad should be removed, I feel like they should at least be consistent and want all bad things to be removed.

But that is exactly tu quoque, the "Whataboutism" variant.

"You want to take out Thing A? What about B, C, D, and X?"
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Now, this is a poorly positioned question. You know darned well we don't have that data, either way.

The real question is whether WotC had feedback enough to suggest this was a good move on their part. We, not being in WotC, don't know the answer to that either.
That's true, but given WotC's history of overreaction, even they might not know if they truly had enough to suggest that it was a good move on their part. 🤷
You just positioned that you want data from others as support.

Then you offer personal anecdote as support?

That seems like an uneven burden of proof.
I was asked what I think, not what I can prove, so I responded with what I thought and why. There's a big difference between what I did and others stating as a matter of fact that the increase in diversity was due to the removal of sexy female artwork
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
But that is exactly tu quoque, the "Whataboutism" variant.

"You want to take out Thing A? What about B, C, D, and X?"
Whataboutism is the argument that this bad thing is okay to keep around, because those other bad things over there aren't being removed. That isn't what I'm arguing. Hypocrisy/selective outrage is a major pet peeve of mine.

What I am doing is unselecting the outrage. It's okay with me if you are outraged at slavery being included in 5e and want to get it removed, but let's be outraged all the bad stuff in 5e, and whether we can get it all removed or not, let's at least include it all.
 

Gradine

The Elephant in the Room (she/her)
Once, when my partner and I were much younger, she was having a pretty severe panic attack. It took quite a bit what was the source of the intrusive thoughts, but a lot of it was climate anxiety, and eventually she blurted out something about polar bears going extinct.

I told her "Sometimes, you have to let somebody else worry about the polar bears."

The problem with saying "Whataboutism" is simply an antidote to perceived "hypocrisy" is that it ignores the human condition, particularly the aspects of ourselves such as:
a) Limited knowledge
b) Limited energy
c) Limited perspective
d) Limited ability

I may advocate locally for local environmental efforts; this does not make me a hypocrite because I'm not also doing anything to save the polar bears, or the thousands of other environmental issues I could pursue. My particular passion for trans rights and recognition is not negated because I'm not as equally active in combatting biphobia, for example.

By all means, let's get a list together of all the things that we'd like to fix about the currently published D&D 5.0 oeuvre. There's a lot there. But then, that's not really the issue currently up for debate, is it? The topic currently at hand is slavery.

"Whataboutism" seeks to scuttle specific and direct conversations by insisting upon expanding their scope beyond the capability of the group to manage. Which is, more often than not, typically the point.
 




Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It is?

I thought the topic was art?
And not just any art, sexy art!

bugbear.jpg
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top