What We Lose When We Eliminate Controversial Content

[Snarf Zagyg]

sounds more like a pro agrument to me...of course Bards are my favorite so I might be biased

Q. How many dead bards does it take to change a lightbulb?

A.

Spoiler

More than 12, because my basement is still dark.

 

[Umbran]

I still find it funny that in an adult game of make believe, slavery=bad, yet going around murdering sentient and non-sentient beings=ok. Plus, the level of mental mas+$#bation people over the ins and outs of various social mores as they change over time is totally entertaining. Please continue another 100 pages please.

Mod Note:
Your insulting disdain has earned you a trip out of the discussion.

There's hundreds of threads on these boards. I suggest you find topics in which you can have constructive input, instead of this.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's very well said.

My position is that slavery is not a problem in D&D. Nor are things like mass murder or genocide. And I say those things as a Jewish man whose great grandparents were from Eastern Europe.

People often like to tell me that I shouldn't talk about it if I(or my people) haven't experienced it, but while it may or may not be historically accurate that my people were slaves in Egypt, that slavery is still a major part of our cultural identity. One of our largest religious holidays Passover to this day has slavery as it's primary focus. And I there are very few who would dare suggest that we haven't endured a fairly recent major genocide at he hands of the Germans in WWII.

The inclusion of slavery and genocide has never offended me or made D&D feel unwelcoming to me. I know that these things are not specific to my people, nor are the instances in D&D meant to represent what happened to the Jews.

Even if I were to find those things upsetting, I would simply avoid them. Neither genocide nor slavery are major parts of the game, even if they remain central to Dark Sun. With 20(and I'm probably low) settings to pick from, I can avoid Dark Sun with it's slavery and genocide forever. Or I could alter it myself to remove those elements.

Yup. I really don't understand why avoiding the things that make you uncomfortable in your hobby time is somehow not an option.

 

[Bagpuss]

I think you’re missing something important.

People aren’t arguing that slavery be removed* because it’s bad. They’re arguing that it be removed because including it is unwelcoming to many players.

* I say removed as a short-hand. More properly, it’s about considering when, where, and how to depict slavery in gaming materials.

I think you were closer with removed as there are those saying it should not appear at all, because it is unwelcoming and other like myself that think there is still a place for it in RPGs.

 

[ilgatto]

(...)
"You want to take out Thing A? What about B, C, D, and X?"

Although I wouldn’t care much if D would be removed from the game, I would be sad if that led to the removal of A, B, C, and X.

 

[Faolyn]

Neither are movies and RPG books but I didn't see you make that argument in the last several pages. Like I said, when it doesn't suit the argument...

Well, I did mention that female super heroes in the movies and TV shows are fully dressed, in comparison to their comic book versions. But mostly, I'm not talking about movies. I'm talking about RPG books. I'm trying to stay on topic and not bring up whataboutisms, after all.

 

[Kaodi]

Counterpoint:

Bards, and the people who play them.

Roleplayers give bards a bad name. Get you a rollplayer who plays a PF2 bard because their one action buff is just good .

 

[Faolyn]

The original 1979 1e DMG DCS cover. The efreeti dual wields a scimitar and a scantily clad woman.

View attachment 279505

I must admit, my first thought about this, as an experienced gamer, is to wonder what is the the weapon speed factor of a naked woman.

 

[Scribe]

Then why single out slavery for removal?

It isn't. There's way more than just slavery that people have been complaining about, demanding it be changed in the name of one thing or another.

Its a very broad/general issue, across all types of media, news, and general society at this point.

 

[Bagpuss]

Seems we are back to the evidence thing. This time as "prove that more people dislike sexist art than like it". I can just repeat myself: the point is that everybody deserves to be heard and respected.

What do you actually mean by "heard and respected" though?

If more people like "sexist" art, do we keep it in, or don't we because "everybody deserves to be heard and respected"?

Do we teach flat earth theory in schools because everyone deserves to be heard and respected.

If say 99% of people like something but 1% doesn't do we have to remove it to respect their views?