What were medieval times journalist-types called?
- Thread starter Razz
- Start date
I did some research, with some help here, and figured the closest thing to being a "reporter" or "journalist" then were scribes aka scriveners.
It just so happens I looked up scribe on Wikipedia and it stated the true roots of journalists and authors (along with accountants and lawyers, but mostly journalists and authors it said) were the scribes/scriveners.
I've explained to my player (my wife, she's a journalism major) about how playing such a role in such a setting and society means. We've managed to figure it out. Her character took max ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), Sense Motive and Profession (scribe). She has an employer who hires her to gather correct information and return it, then write it and present it to the public for a fee.
Her major problem is thinking too modern, and not enough medieval fantasy. In case you're all wondering, the setting is in Forgotten Realms and her Urban Druid is based in Waterdeep. I remember reading in City of Splendors: Waterdeep that they sort of have a "newspaper" outlet in the city. I have to scan through the book to find it, but I distinctly remembering finding it in there because it was something very modern and not expected (but with a place like Waterdeep, it was bound to happen).
Now she has a goal for her character. Since Waterdeep has no official sage's guild, her character will now plan to start one and form it into a "news" business for the city of Waterdeep.
It just so happens I looked up scribe on Wikipedia and it stated the true roots of journalists and authors (along with accountants and lawyers, but mostly journalists and authors it said) were the scribes/scriveners.
I've explained to my player (my wife, she's a journalism major) about how playing such a role in such a setting and society means. We've managed to figure it out. Her character took max ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), Sense Motive and Profession (scribe). She has an employer who hires her to gather correct information and return it, then write it and present it to the public for a fee.
Her major problem is thinking too modern, and not enough medieval fantasy. In case you're all wondering, the setting is in Forgotten Realms and her Urban Druid is based in Waterdeep. I remember reading in City of Splendors: Waterdeep that they sort of have a "newspaper" outlet in the city. I have to scan through the book to find it, but I distinctly remembering finding it in there because it was something very modern and not expected (but with a place like Waterdeep, it was bound to happen).
Now she has a goal for her character. Since Waterdeep has no official sage's guild, her character will now plan to start one and form it into a "news" business for the city of Waterdeep.
Celebrim
Legend
Gossips.
Seriously, they didn't exist as a profession. The closest you could come is that wealthy people would pay someone who was literate to follow them around and record for posterity what they did in as positive of light as possible. Or, wealthy people would pay someone to go around shouting when they wanted everyone to know something. Or, wealthy people would pay someone to mock them when they were being dumb because it was illegal and punishable by death for anyone else to say they were being a blockhead.
But journalists. They didn't exist, and if they did exist, they'd get hung for saying that the people in charge were blockheads.
Seriously, they didn't exist as a profession. The closest you could come is that wealthy people would pay someone who was literate to follow them around and record for posterity what they did in as positive of light as possible. Or, wealthy people would pay someone to go around shouting when they wanted everyone to know something. Or, wealthy people would pay someone to mock them when they were being dumb because it was illegal and punishable by death for anyone else to say they were being a blockhead.
But journalists. They didn't exist, and if they did exist, they'd get hung for saying that the people in charge were blockheads.
Wik
First Post
Razz said:I did some research, with some help here, and figured the closest thing to being a "reporter" or "journalist" then were scribes aka scriveners.
It just so happens I looked up scribe on Wikipedia and it stated the true roots of journalists and authors (along with accountants and lawyers, but mostly journalists and authors it said) were the scribes/scriveners.
I've explained to my player (my wife, she's a journalism major) about how playing such a role in such a setting and society means. We've managed to figure it out. Her character took max ranks in Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), Sense Motive and Profession (scribe). She has an employer who hires her to gather correct information and return it, then write it and present it to the public for a fee.
Her major problem is thinking too modern, and not enough medieval fantasy. In case you're all wondering, the setting is in Forgotten Realms and her Urban Druid is based in Waterdeep. I remember reading in City of Splendors: Waterdeep that they sort of have a "newspaper" outlet in the city. I have to scan through the book to find it, but I distinctly remembering finding it in there because it was something very modern and not expected (but with a place like Waterdeep, it was bound to happen).
Now she has a goal for her character. Since Waterdeep has no official sage's guild, her character will now plan to start one and form it into a "news" business for the city of Waterdeep.
That actually sounds pretty cool.
I think it'd be neat if you had TWO papers competing with one another. You could have feuds over distribution, with editors trying to steal important writers. Of course, the wealthy would get involved - whoever controls the press,controls the people.
There's a lot of neat ideas here. Since your wife is a journalism major (and it sounds like she wants to use D&D to indulge in her own personal fantasies - no crime, so long as it doesn't involve goats), why not try to introduce a few plotlines similar to the big media stories of the past 100 years? Something like a medieval watergate scandal ("Deep throat" and all) would be right up the character's alley.
Razz said:
well, the scribes and scriveners mostly were hired to do piece work by someone who wanted a written copy of something, like a legal document or mercantile record or somesuch.
The people who travelled the countryside in the medieval period in Europe were the Troubadeurs [ever hear of "travelling troubadours"?]. They would go from town-to-town and sing songs about recent events [perhaps within the past year or two] that would be of relative import to the listeners. Thus information about wars and noble marriages would get circulated by oral means. Only the clergy were literate [and the nobles they trained to read and write]. The minstrel and the bard did essentially the same thing at different time periods.
This really didn't change until well after the movable type printing press was invented and came into widespread use [probably by the mid-1500s, which is the Renaissance].
green slime
First Post
The easiest way to dessiminate knowledge in the past was through the town crier. It didn't require any sort of knowledge on the side of the receiver.
Interestingly enough, another system I've seen in use, was the public billboard. In countries where paper is at a premium (Vietnam, People's Republic of China), the newspapers were made available in public places, on a large billboard-type display. I don't know if this is still done there though. All it requires is literacy, which is something taken for granted in most DnD cultures (except for the "barbarians"). As it only requires one copy per billboard, as opposed to one copy per household, the effort required to produce sufficient copies is less.
I seem to recall hearing the Romans had flyers with adverts and such, although I may be misremembering. These are easier to produce, as they don't require moving type, just one large stamp.
Interestingly enough, another system I've seen in use, was the public billboard. In countries where paper is at a premium (Vietnam, People's Republic of China), the newspapers were made available in public places, on a large billboard-type display. I don't know if this is still done there though. All it requires is literacy, which is something taken for granted in most DnD cultures (except for the "barbarians"). As it only requires one copy per billboard, as opposed to one copy per household, the effort required to produce sufficient copies is less.
I seem to recall hearing the Romans had flyers with adverts and such, although I may be misremembering. These are easier to produce, as they don't require moving type, just one large stamp.
guildofblades
First Post
Merchants....
And they spread their stories via gossip as they met and camped with other travelers and a bit with customers. Customers would almost always inquire of merchants what was happening from hence the merchant had just come.
Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com
And they spread their stories via gossip as they met and camped with other travelers and a bit with customers. Customers would almost always inquire of merchants what was happening from hence the merchant had just come.
Ryan S. Johnson
Guild of Blades Publishing Group
http://www.guildofblades.com
http://www.1483online.com
http://www.thermopylae-online.com
Yeah, the "press" as we know it literally requires the "printing press" to exist. Partial timeline from Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_media ):
In fact "modern journalism" is depicted as only starting in the 1920's, less than one hundred years ago ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism#Role_of_journalism_in_society ). The "fourth estate" of the press (after kind/clergy, nobility, and serfs) was only recognized in the 19th century ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_estate ).
In fact "modern journalism" is depicted as only starting in the 1920's, less than one hundred years ago ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism#Role_of_journalism_in_society ). The "fourth estate" of the press (after kind/clergy, nobility, and serfs) was only recognized in the 19th century ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_estate ).
Nyeshet
First Post
Journalists, as you describe them, did not exist in the middle ages. News traveled the countryside via peddlers, bards / minstrels, and travelers in general. In towns and cities - especially those surrounding the keep / castle / home of a lord, there were occasionally Heralds that would tack up &/or call out the current news or pronouncement from on high (ie: the most recent dictates of the local lord).
Another possibility is the Scribe, someone who wrote of what they knew - on philosophy, alchemy, mathematics, religion, natural philosophy, law, warfare, or whatever. They would not be calling out the information or spreading it through any means beyond trying to sell their (self-written) tome (which, usually, were not all that large / long, as parchment and ink could be quite expensive then), but finding a scribe that wrote on current events and perhaps 'published' his collection of notes / thoughts on such every season or year might perhaps be close to the equivalent of a middle ages 'journalist.'
However, I think the Herald would still be closer - calling out recent local news in the plaza, pinning up the new ordinance or law or pronouncement(s) of the local lord, etc.
Another possibility is the Scribe, someone who wrote of what they knew - on philosophy, alchemy, mathematics, religion, natural philosophy, law, warfare, or whatever. They would not be calling out the information or spreading it through any means beyond trying to sell their (self-written) tome (which, usually, were not all that large / long, as parchment and ink could be quite expensive then), but finding a scribe that wrote on current events and perhaps 'published' his collection of notes / thoughts on such every season or year might perhaps be close to the equivalent of a middle ages 'journalist.'
However, I think the Herald would still be closer - calling out recent local news in the plaza, pinning up the new ordinance or law or pronouncement(s) of the local lord, etc.
Steel_Wind
Legend
While it is true that "The press" in the real world requires a moveable type press to work - that is not so in a magical world.
All number of spells are available to permit something akin to a newspaper. You could have a spell copy a broadsheet for public posting in - say - 20 or 30 locations in a large city more or less simultaneously.
You could even add magic mouths or some such to it for glitz and to disseminate the information to the illiterate.
While a newsbook/pamplet or true newspaper like the Dutch invented in the early 17th century is possible - I would not restrict your avenues of development to the mundane. A magical world where magic is "science" would be just as likely to expolit it for the purpose than turn to the mundane.
The press goes hand in hand with sedition and revolution though. It is no accident that nations - even to this day - regulate what is said and who can say it.
In either event, great post. I don't think I've ever seen this questions come up before - and that's saying something.
All number of spells are available to permit something akin to a newspaper. You could have a spell copy a broadsheet for public posting in - say - 20 or 30 locations in a large city more or less simultaneously.
You could even add magic mouths or some such to it for glitz and to disseminate the information to the illiterate.
While a newsbook/pamplet or true newspaper like the Dutch invented in the early 17th century is possible - I would not restrict your avenues of development to the mundane. A magical world where magic is "science" would be just as likely to expolit it for the purpose than turn to the mundane.
The press goes hand in hand with sedition and revolution though. It is no accident that nations - even to this day - regulate what is said and who can say it.
In either event, great post. I don't think I've ever seen this questions come up before - and that's saying something.
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