What will Masterplan be after the C&D?

[Dolfan]

When I first started my campaign several months ago, I was using my DDI subscription to build my campaign. I made notes in OneNote, then I looked up monster stat blocks on the compendium, snapshotted them to Photoshop and then copied them to Word where I put together my module to print out and use at the game table.

When I discovered Masterplan, it was like a dream come true. I had the ability to completely organize my campaign by using my DDI subscription, I had a clear use of monsters so that I could just research them, then drag them into my encounters, I could run the encounter from the program... it was all ideal. Now I see this and I just cringe.

Perhaps it's software piracy that is really to blame here, but decisions like the C&D on Masterplan make my life as a DM harder. I'm not doing anything illegal here, I'm using my subscription that I pay for to access the monsters and put them into my campaign. Now, if I wanted to update Masterplan (which I don't), I'd be back to the same old method of encounter creation that took me hours.

For what it's worth, I emailed WotC to voice my displeasure about this decision. If they had left me with another option (a tool they created, perhaps) I wouldn't have an issue, but since they've left me with nothing, I feel like the company is cutting off its nose to spite its face. It's restricting my access to DDI, making it less useful to me. The response I got was friendly and indicated that they'd pass it along to the appropriate department. I'm not naive... I don't think my voice (or a hundred thousand voices) would change their mind on things like this, but I figured it needed to be said.

Here's hoping the next tool is an encounter builder that mimics this functionality.

 

[Kafen]

Intentionally conflating the very distinct data management strategies of iPlay4e and Masterplan is severely misguided, in my opinion. Data storage is data storage? One strategy permits casual sharing of proprietary data, the other does not.

How does iPlay4e not offer exports of data? If you go to my screenshot, you see a data export and a character sheet option in iPlay4e. It is two forms of data export from iPlay4e - the exact same thing you get from Masterplan. The quantity of the data is beside the point. Under the GSL, there is no gray area.

For anybody that develops software for character sheets, it is a huge issue. WOTC is basically targeting one developer while letting people other than that one developer use the data.

 

[malraux]

How does iPlay4e not offer exports of data? If you go to my screenshot, you see a data export and a character sheet option in iPlay4e. It is two forms of data export from iPlay4e - the exact same thing you get from Masterplan. The quantity of the data is beside the point. Under the GSL, there is no gray area.

For anybody that develops software for character sheets, it is a huge issue. WOTC is basically targeting one developer while letting people other than that one developer use the data.

Do you not get that a data file that says "Magic Missile = +12" is completely different from a file that that lists every single monster plus all of its associated power text? It isn't that there's data, its the nature of the data. Seriously, open up the character builder file and look at what is there. There's virtually nothing even in it. Then open up the masterplan files. There's everything in them.

 

[mudbunny]

How does iPlay4e not offer exports of data? If you go to my screenshot, you see a data export and a character sheet option in iPlay4e. It is two forms of data export from iPlay4e - the exact same thing you get from Masterplan.

Errr. no.

With Masterplan, you click two buttons, and the program automatically goes through the compendium and saves, *to your hard drive*, a large portion of the compendium that you can access at any time in the future, whether you have a current subscription or not.

With iPlay4E, none of the compendium data is saved anywhere. It displays the content of the compendium, but there is no option to save it to your harddrive. In addition, should your DDI subscription expire, you will no longer be able to access the information about the powers.

The two situations are not even close to being the same.

The quantity of the data is beside the point. Under the GSL, there is no gray area.

Neither developer has, to the best of my knowledge, signed the GSL, so it is irrelevant to this discussion.

For anybody that develops software for character sheets, it is a huge issue. WOTC is basically targeting one developer while letting people other than that one developer use the data.

Except for the fact that the programs/websites for each developer act in two completely different ways. One that requires a constant subscription to DDI, the other which renders a DDI subscription unnecessary.

 

[fnwc]

One wonders if they had implemented Masterplan to require a current DDI subscription (via logon) each time they wanted to access compendium library files, we would have seen a C&D.

 

[Kafen]

Errr. no.

With Masterplan, you click two buttons, and the program automatically goes through the compendium and saves, *to your hard drive*, a large portion of the compendium that you can access at any time in the future, whether you have a current subscription or not.

With iPlay4E, none of the compendium data is saved anywhere. It displays the content of the compendium, but there is no option to save it to your harddrive. In addition, should your DDI subscription expire, you will no longer be able to access the information about the powers.

The two situations are not even close to being the same.

Both software applications store data. Both applications offer export of the data. I double dog dare you to tell a judge that they are not the same.

Neither developer has, to the best of my knowledge, signed the GSL, so it is irrelevant to this discussion.

WOTC is sending legal threats to people over it. The GSL is is the only record WOTC has to describe its motivations towards the software community. It's extremely relevant.

Except for the fact that the programs/websites for each developer act in two completely different ways. One that requires a constant subscription to DDI, the other which renders a DDI subscription unnecessary.

I do not have an active DDI account and Little Bobby was made the other day. I posted Little Bobby to iPlay4e without issue. No active DDI account needed.

 

[mudbunny]

One wonders if they had implemented Masterplan to require a current DDI subscription (via logon) each time they wanted to access compendium library files, we would have seen a C&D.

I highly doubt it. I suspect that version 9 of the program will implement compendium access similar to that found in iPlay4e. And that is an important part that needs to be mentioned. Development of the program is being continued. That indicates that there was only a specific part of the program that was causing the problem. Excise/replace that part with something permitted, and the problem (and thus the need for a C&D) goes away.

 

[mudbunny]

Both software applications store data. Both applications offer export of the data. I double dog dare you to tell a judge that they are not the same.

Except that the data that they store is not at all the same. iPlay4e doesn't store any of the information from the compendium. No compendium access, you don't get the compendium information on the data.

I just signed myself out from the compendium and clicked on your character. When I click on a power that isn't from L1-3 from PHB1&2 (which are freely available to view, DDI subscription or no), I get the following on the iPlay4e character sheet:

Notice that where it would normally display the power, it says you need to sign in to see the info. That right there is

WOTC is sending legal threats to people over it. The GSL is is the only record WOTC has to describe its motivations towards the software community. It's extremely relevant.

Not really, If you haven't signed the GSL, you don't need to comply with it.

I do not have an active DDI account and Little Bobby was made the other day. I posted Little Bobby to iPlay4e without issue. No active DDI account needed.

You don't need a DDI account to use iPlay4e. You can upload stuff no problem. But without a DDI account, the powers part doesn't show you the powers info.

 

[malraux]

Both software applications store data. Both applications offer export of the data. I double dog dare you to tell a judge that they are not the same.

Umm, data is a very nebulous word. WotC isn't going to put a C&D on Microsoft, even through MS sells software that lets you save and store data, yet by your logic they should (or at least that it would be consistent of WotC to do so). Or hey, itunes lets me download data, i bet that also infringes.

 

[Kafen]

Umm, data is a very nebulous word. WotC isn't going to put a C&D on Microsoft, even through MS sells software that lets you save and store data, yet by your logic they should (or at least that it would be consistent of WotC to do so). Or hey, itunes lets me download data, i bet that also infringes.

Actually, Itunes has copyrighted data. DRM FTW, eh? Software rules generally don't cover data in the US which forces WOTC cease and desist letters to invoke the GSL as the nearest defense for claiming the data under the terms of the software. I am pretty sure the companies in question are not signing onto the Wizards terms as an entity. So, data is the only word that applies.

Except that the data that they store is not at all the same. iPlay4e doesn't store any of the information from the compendium. No compendium access, you don't get the compendium information on the data.

I just signed myself out from the compendium and clicked on your character. When I click on a power that isn't from L1-3 from PHB1&2 (which are freely available to view, DDI subscription or no), I get the following on the iPlay4e character sheet:

Notice that where it would normally display the power, it says you need to sign in to see the info. That right there is

Not really, If you haven't signed the GSL, you don't need to comply with it.

Yet, what is WOTC going to claim the data with in the US if it does not choose the GSL? If it wants to try arguing ownership of data open to scraping tech, I would love to see it try. With the entire mood of the topic aside, I would love WOTC to try to make the claim for humor value alone. You can't give people an API, allow them access to data, and blame a third party with a straight face. It's the legal version of Apple suing a guy for downloading a song he is buying from their store - the choice in music player at this point is beside the point. The software company that merely offers a service giving you usage of data that you pay for is reasonably secure - Masterplan is not hosting any of the shared files. All violations occur on the user level which is an enforcement issue for WOTC.

You don't need a DDI account to use iPlay4e. You can upload stuff no problem. But without a DDI account, the powers part doesn't show you the powers info.

Agreed, they distribute the data, however. In terms of a legal threat. WOTC stands a greater chance of action against iPlay4e as a site that hosts data under the recent torrent cases in the US. Unless WOTC can show that Masterplan intends for end users to distribute illegal library files through its own network, I would bet my last dollar on Masterplan winning the case.

Generally speaking, I look forward to seeing what happens. I might actually finish my 4e online suite for my own site if Masterplan forces WOTC to open the data/file format.