What would a "fairy-tale" setting be like?

[Djeta Thernadier]

Most of the ORIGINAL (not butter up Disney-fied) fairy tales by Grimm etc. are very dark, gory and do not always have happy endings.

Definately worth reading if you get a chance.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It might be fun to twist magic a wee bit...

Say, make it kinda like the 'different psionics' option...all magical creatures have a specific template you can apply to them, and non-magic folk (humans, mostly) find it hard to resist or overcome their powers....

Of course, the Wizard class would probably be restricted 'by training only.' Some other races may be fey (Pixies, Dryads, Satyrs, even the smaller elementals or younger dragons).

I guess it depends on how much you want to play in the fairy tale world. If you're full-on fantastical, you don't need Humans at all, and you just describe the roaming adventurers, thwarting the designs of wicked queens and kings in the name of goodness, using trickery and illusion as the most powerful weapons. They travel only at night (because daylight is deadly to most of the Faerie), and may even do good tasks for humans, perhaps at the behest of the elf king that lives in the shaded glenn, or perhaps at the behest of higher powers of the universe. Mystery is an important element, as is the ubiquitous nature of minor magical flourishes. Think of a 'lunar' theme...the moon changes constantly, altering the light of night and the visibility of the world at large. Perhaps it even opposes the 'solar' world, the world of the humans (which is why kitties and wolves are somewhat fey -- they're noctournal). The world you interact with is one of continuous riddle and mischief, some of it harmless, some of it deadly. And some of it perpetuated by those fey who utterly lothe everything beautiful and pure.

If you want humans in the mix, but don't mind a few PC's being fey, it's a lot like above, with perhaps more emphasis on the conflict between the two worlds. The humans may be touched by the fey, or recruited by them, or they may seek out the fey and join their crusade. Either way, the two live in different worlds, with the magical being mostly inexplicable to the mundanes, but a few mundanes can figure it out.

If you want to go pure human/mundane, your world should be filled with nighttime mischief, illusion, and trickery. Everything should be an allegory, and the only way to solve the adventure is to figure out the riddle. Things like levels and CR's become less key, since fighting isn't the way out of most situations. You can pit a party of four commoner children against a massive red great wyrm, and have them come out better for it because of their magical amulet of mother's love, or their pure hearts for helping the out-of-sorts goblins earlier.

It's not a matter of the tales being for children, it's a matter of the children's mindset -- the world is full of potential, wonder, and unexplored corners with secrets just waiting. Some are good, but some want to get you and eat you up. Even the adults must exist with this mentality (though they could have their own worlds pretty well 'figured out,' and 'don't want no truck with the unnatural'). The unknown is a powerful force, for both good and ill, and no matter how much you discover, there's always more waiting.

 

[Arcane Runes Press]

If any component makes you think Disney, take it to committee and try your darndest to remove that component. If you can't, skirt around it. That's a proper fairy-tale.

Yes, I'm serious. Why do you think I don't have fairies in my fantasy? It's because they aren't fairy-tale enough.

If you want to, but you don't have to.

There is no such thing as a "proper" fairytale. Modern, more gentle interpretations of fairy tales (ala Disney's Beauty and the Beast, or Sleeping Beauty) can be just as valid and entertaining as darker tales of lust and violence.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a gentler, more Disney-esque land is more likely to be immediately identified as a "fairy tale" setting than one which hews more closely to the old versions of the tales, if for no other reason than D&D gamers are likely to respond to the cues of a darker interpretation with characteristic sword & sorcery ultra violence and behavior.

For a good example of what is often considered to be a very fairytale-like setting (by the modern, more broad interpretation of the word), check out Hyrule, from the Legend of Zelda series. Miyazaki's Spirited Away is another, exceptionally good example of a fairytale with a modern sensibility.

Patrick Y.

Patrick Y.

 

[Argus Decimus Mokira]

Hey

I'll just mention that the Shadow Rift supplement for 2nd edition Ravenloft deals with fey in the Domains of Dread. Sadly, most of the book is a long, boring, hack and slash adventure, but a LOT of interesting bits and bobs can be pulled from it.

Thanks
-Matt

 

[Starman]

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll have to pick up some of those books and get some ideas/inspiration.

Starman

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Its a common misnomer that Fairytales are designed for children but this is incorrect. Fairytale are often post-christian renderings of earlier myth, the 'wisdom' of pre-literate societies and were originally designed for education of communities, targeting Adults

Take Red Riding Hood for instance - a metaphor for loss of Virginity where the heroine represents the innocent Maiden (with her red hood intack) who must face the terror of the Crone in the form of Grandmother Wolf. Its Man(Prince) vs Nature(Wolf/Witch), Society vs Savagery, and the innocence of the Maiden vs the terror of the Crone within our lifetimes

I completely agree that Fairy Tales are not necessarily for children. Grim's first printing of Red Riding Hood has a lot of erotic elements to it. Not exactly a metaphor.

I would, however, register a lot of reservation about the whole remnant myth hypothesis. There are a lot of important scholarly reasons for doing so, but I the reason I register a complaint is that it undermines the immediate creativity involved in producing fairy tales. While there are a lot of connections and potential connections between various mythologies and a variety of genres, and I would not deny that, I do have the impression that there is a nasty denigrating component to the remnant myth theory. One that implies that fairy tales have no value of their own and aren't so much a product of the people who created them as results of controveries among the 'elites' who governed their lives. That and there is an amazing amount of post-reformation spin in the idea of post-Christian/pre-Christian anything.

Bottom line is the production of Fairy Tales is pretty murky and fraught with controversy.

That and the whole maiden/crone dynamic just seems way too post-romantic/modernist to really sit well with me as an honest interpretation of the work in context. Though I have no beef with it as a good reading of the tale itself or spin on its potential lessons.

There was a really neat reading of the Frog Prince story and the changes in it over time in that Education of Max Bickford(do I have the title right?) really wish they hadn't cancelled that.

 

[Mark Plemmons]

Even though it's set in the present, I have to strongly recommend the "Fables" series (DC Comics) by Bill Willingham. Issue #4, in particular, for your needs.

Bill's been a fan of fairy tales for many years now, and this series really shows how to combine all the different fairy tale worlds (Oz, Grimm, Narnia, Andersen, etc) into one single mythos.

For example, take Prince Charming. He's actually a single cad who's married Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc, and moves from woman to woman as his true self is revealed and the relationship dies.

===
Mark Plemmons
Kenzer and Company
www.kenzerco.com
===

 

[Tonguez]

I completely agree that Fairy Tales are not necessarily for children. Grim's first printing of Red Riding Hood has a lot of erotic elements to it. Not exactly a metaphor.

I would, however, register a lot of reservation about the whole remnant myth hypothesis. There are a lot of important scholarly reasons for doing so, but I the reason I register a complaint is that it undermines the immediate creativity involved in producing fairy tales. While there are a lot of connections and potential connections between various mythologies and a variety of genres, and I would not deny that, I do have the impression that there is a nasty denigrating component to the remnant myth theory. One that implies that fairy tales have no value of their own and aren't so much a product of the people who created them as results of controveries among the 'elites' who governed their lives. That and there is an amazing amount of post-reformation spin in the idea of post-Christian/pre-Christian anything.

Bottom line is the production of Fairy Tales is pretty murky and fraught with controversy.

Hi Dr Strangemonkey

I agree with your commentary entirely. The above was really my shorthand for saying that Fairytale employ a number of mythopoetic motif from in various mythologies reinterpreted for the given cultural context in which they are produced.

In seems that for the purposes of creating a Fairytale setting one must look at the nature of those Motif (including the Maiden/Crone dynamic) and reintepret them in accordance with our current cultural context.