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What would a magical world look like? Discussion thread

One further addendum. I believe magic makes the black death highly unlikely to have the effect it had in the middle ages. Disease is less of an issue. While healing spells and cure disease are not unlimited they could be used effectively at key points in history to blunt the effect.
 

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I believe there would be magical arms-races (wards versus teleport) and so forth. The high-level wizards necessary to teleport an army into an enemy capital city would be fairly rare and I am guessing the more powerful countries would each have a few constantly working to fortify their wards and look for weaknesses in the wards of other nations.

There might also be some sort of order (ala dragon age) tasked with tracking down and regulating magic-users depending on how such talent manifested (some people had innate ability and others didn't; magic without training is chaotic and dangerous; and so forth).
 

IIRC, in Brust's Dragaera combat magic is so effective that counter magic is vital, with the net effect that most actual fighting is done by guys with swords until they eliminate the enemy counter mages, at which point the battle ends.

Speaking of useful species, in Eberron the nation of Droaam is largely populated by monstrous races. Many of these species are carnivorous, and this has limited their ability to sustain large communities. The Daughters of Sora Kell arrived with a seemingly endless supply of meat for their loyal followers. The secret? Troll sausage. My theory is that troll meat is typically poisonous... Otherwise everyone would be eating it... And the Daughters have a secret blend of herbs and spices that make it (vaguely) edible. But if a troll can grow a leg back... Why not eat the leg?

It's been a long time, but I know I explored the idea of high magic investigation and law enforcement in Crime and Punishment (Atlas Games). One thing that sticks in my mind are high security prisons. In an arcane society polymorph would allow you to keep prisoners in more manageable forms... A menagerie of hardened criminal mice. If you don't care if the prisoners are conscious you could petrify them. In a high divine society, you could burn prisoners; keep the ashes and resurrect them when their term is up.
 

I think it might be more cost effective to do a one-time anti-magic zone style enchantment on a cell block, rather than casting a polymorph or flesh to stone or whatever on each prisoner. Just a thought.
 

Thanks for the info, [MENTION=15800]Hellcow[/MENTION]. :)

Moving on from Eberron... The problem with a world based on D&D is that it's too much of a kitchen sink. There are Wizards, Clerics, Warlocks, Sorcerers, etc. So many different ways to access powerful magics that it makes it difficult to contain without countermeasures or ultra-powerful beings to keep things in check.

We tend to think of magic as just another technology. But that doesn't seem helpful to me. In a world where someone can burn an entire village down to the ground with a gesture, people would live in constant fear of anyone that used magic. A child that displayed magical ability might be killed for the good of the clan or village.

Would the end result of a truly magical world be something like Dark Sun? A post-apocalyptic hellscape ruled by powerful tyrants? I find that to be closer to the truth than the idea that it would be an ordered society based on medieval Europe. If an ordered society did arise with magic as available as it is in D&D, it would probably look quite a bit different, and much more weird, than anything we might encounter in our own history.
 


I'm taking inspiration from the title of another thread.

It's generally acknowledged that things like castles and medieval fortifications as a whole are less than useful in a world with D&D style magic in it.

As a whole, yes. In particular, Edwardian style fortifications with large open baileys and exposed fighting tops are less useful because of flight. However, even that might not be a fair appraisal because IRL the things we think of as Edwardian castles are just ruins with all the wood bits removed. There is good evidence that in a fighting posture, an Edwardian castle had covered fighting positions. Because of things like Fireball, covered fighting positions are actually more important, and not less. An army in the field is easily blasted. An army behind a prepared fighting position gains Improved Evasion.

If you move your imagination from England to the castles of Switzerland, Austia, Poland, and the Slavic Kingdoms where they tended to have small or enclosed baileys and permanent stone fighting positions - adaptations which were in part due to the less mild weather as well as greater political insecurity - then you have castles which largely work well in a fantasy setting with flight, fireball, and the like. Note also that the multiple door system acts as a pretty decent anti-invisibility defense, especially when combined with trained dogs.

All you really have to do then is invest a small portion of your castle building budget on magical defenses.

In general, the effect of magic is to increase the effective tech level by a few degrees in ways that don't exactly parallel the development of technology in the real world. For example, while I've fiat ruled that there are no stable explosives in my world to keep firearms away, one reason that something like gunpowder never really catches on is that its relatively easy to set something on fire from a distance. On the other hand, shield walls and heavy infantry are generally more important than heavy cavalry, so you never quite get away from Alexander the Great style combined arms approaches. Military science stays at a higher level than it did in feudal society. Medicine is also much more highly evolved - arguably more sophisticated in many ways than modern medicine. Light is also comparatively cheap at least in urban areas - which has a huge impact on quality of life.

Similarly, feudal style social stratification would fall by the wayside very quickly when some talented kid off the farm could develop Sorcerous abilities out of nowhere.

Not necessarily. Wizards and witches were already part of the real world medieval caste system - each in their own way. In a world with real magic, you'd just expect different new castes to open up, with whether they were an honored craftsman caste or hunted criminal caste depending on their ability to conform to the larger societies expectations. In my game, wizards are a respected caste all their own, with certain rights and dignities afforded them (as long as they play by the rules)
while sorcerers are considered to be monsters lacking even human rights. Some 1st level talented kid off the farm better hide his talent thoroughly, because a 1st level sorcerer is no match for a couple dozen veteran guards and witch hunters. Conversely, a wizard of noted ability would have the same sort of place of honor as a doctor or scholar of noted skill Regardless of his birth, he would be a celebrated figure at court and would be courted and paid highly and allowed far greater freedom to travel and to hold unusual opinions (though not unlimited freedom) than ordinary persons.

Consider a world where the "Will of god" can be known with certainty, and independently verified from anywhere on the continent.

It would be a world quite similar to one with a Holy Book, canonical interpretation, and a Pope who can speak the will of God. The main differences would be that the 'Pope' would have even more temporal authority (as a spellcasting cleric with similar servants), and that there would be dozens or even hundreds of such figures competing for authority. Collectively they would have an even greater role in ordinary life the Catholic church, though individually they would be much weaker. In general, I call this the 'Etruscan Model', and since good evidence for Etruscan ritual no longer exists (save for the testimony of the Romans), I tend to model my cultural trappings in part after India.

Consider a justice system where the innocence or guilt of an accused criminal can be verified with 100% certainty, using the right magics.

Hardly. And to the extent that this is true, it's like saying that the guilt or innocence of an accused criminal can be verified with 100% certainty by the inquisitorial authorities using the right torture. Who watches the watchers?

Consider a world where trade can occur over vast distances in the blink of an eye, thanks to spells like Itemize/Shrink Item and Teleport.

This is a big one, though in practice how much of an impact this really has depends on whether there are a lot of 9th level casters. In my game world, Amalteen had one arcane caster capable of casting teleport for a nation of 200,000 people. Talernga, the big regional power with a half million inhabitants had three, but one is now dead and the other two are not loyal to the Thrones and are serving their own interests (though one has actually been doing stuff like this secretly to increase the profits of his front organization a merchant/trading company).

In its broad effect, the increase in long distance travel and communication explains the relatively small number of extant languages, the uniformity of measurements and currencies, the relative uniformity of the availability of food stuffs, and the general lack of cultural isolation compared to the real world.

Consider a world where pretty much every national border can be bypassed by anyone who can afford the Wizard's services, where an enemy can use things like Teleport Circle to drop troops directly into your capital city, or even your bedroom.

Sure, but the number of casters in the whole world that can cast Teleport Circle is tiny. There is one in Talernga currently, and he's the first one in this region in 80 years and the nearest competitor is 600 miles away. But to the extent that these are around, they've also fortified their residences against this sort of thing. To the extent that these are around, they generally are uninterested in helping kings do their thing, and they generally don't like doing anything that other archmages might consider overly aggressive. It's true that if a city has an archmage, other rulers do not plan to besiege that city or do anything to tick that person off, but its equally true that the ruler of that city doesn't consider the archmage to be a mere subject that you order around. "Don't meddle in the affairs of wizards.", has a lot to recommend it. Conversely, wizards find that, "Don't meddle in politics.", is good advice.

What does this world look like?

Depending on your demographic and cultural assumptions, whatever the heck you like.
 
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People seem awfully focused on spellcasters in this thread. Monsters need to be considered as well - you're far more likely to be attacked by flying monsters than wizards with fly. Thor help you if they're flying tool-using monsters.
 

To answer these questions, we need to know a lot about the rules of the world, beyond what's in the PHB.

Similarly, feudal style social stratification would fall by the wayside very quickly when some talented kid off the farm could develop Sorcerous abilities out of nowhere.

Not necessarily. You figure Henry V was, in fact, the greatest swordsman in the land? No. While literature usually has an individual of prowess personally winning and taking the throne, that is because you want the protagonist to become the Big Person On Campus. That doesn't mean things would actually turn out that way.

Ultimately, political power flows from the ability to get people to do things for you. Conan cannot beat his entire kingdom into submission with a sword and fear of his person. How you get people to do things for you is, in part, cultural.

Consider a world where the "Will of god" can be known with certainty, and independently verified from anywhere on the continent.

Note - with D&D magic, this is not assured. Only clerics can be sure to verify it, and they are not "independent". By RAW, it is possible that clerics *think* their powers come from gods, but they come from their force of will, or somesuch.

Consider a justice system where the innocence or guilt of an accused criminal can be verified with 100% certainty, using the right magics.

Yes, but do you trust the magician? Who watches the watchmen? Relying on an individual spellcaster to give expert testimony on truth is asking for abuses.

Consider a world where trade can occur over vast distances in the blink of an eye, thanks to spells like Itemize/Shrink Item and Teleport.

This becomes an issue of demographics - how many people who can cast these spells actually exist in the world?

Consider a world where pretty much every national border can be bypassed by anyone who can afford the Wizard's services, where an enemy can use things like Teleport Circle to drop troops directly into your capital city, or even your bedroom.

This would depend on the world's rules for new spells. If everyone is stuck with what is in the PHB, then they're stuck with those. Otherwise... expect a permanent version of Dimensional Lock to protect the quarters of the mighty. Expect the development of spells or items that can detect teleportation magics anywhere in the city, and spellcasters on hand to jump in and cast spells that create stone on the site into which people are teleporting, and so on...
 

The world will be less feudal as communication and travel spells would allow a king to directly control his lands at a much larger distance.
Having the support of wizards or clerics, or being a spellcaster himself is curucial in ruling a realm.

There would be no castles as there would be no air defence with the assumed technological level (bows shooting upwards don't have that much of a range and certainly less than the distance which still allows for semi accurate bombing runs with rocks or alchemical substances).

Diamond trade would be highly regulated because of raise dead. Displaying diamonds openly is the ultimate form of decadence.

Religious wars would be way worse than in history.
 

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