What would be the value($$) and utility of this item?

[darthkilmor]

My Players stay out!( Frank! )








Ok, so what would the value being of a cloak that made the wearer be totally ignored by vermin?
No scent, sight, touch, etc. Vermin would react to be attacked in that they'd lash out at nothingness or run away. Would a cloak be an appropriate slot for this kind of item ? I'm not really sure if there's a spell that this would emulate this kind of ability so not sure where to start guessing as far as price.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Cloak is a good slot for this item.

I'd base it on the Hide from Undead spell (or Hide from Animals).

Hide from Undead
Abjuration
Level: Clr 1
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: One touched creature/level
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless); see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

Undead cannot see, hear, or smell the warded creatures. Even extraordinary or supernatural sensory capabilities, such as blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense, cannot detect or locate warded creatures. Nonintelligent undead creatures are automatically affected and act as though the warded creatures are not there. An intelligent undead creature gets a single Will saving throw. If it fails, the subject can’t see any of the warded creatures. However, if it has reason to believe unseen opponents are present, it can attempt to find or strike them. If a warded creature attempts to turn or command undead, touches an undead creature, or attacks any creature (even with a spell), the spell ends for all recipients.

Both are 1st-level spells, so ...

Spell Level * Caster Level * 2,000 * 1.5 (Time Factor)

1 * 3 * 2,000gp * 1.5 = 9,000gp

And that might be a little bit on the high side.

 

[AuraSeer]

Sounds like hide from undead swapped for a different creature type.

It needs a slight modification, though. The original spell doesn't allow a save from mindless undead, and duplicating that seems overpowered because all vermin are mindless. So allow a Will save in all cases; it will still perform quite well because vermin tend to have awful Will saves.

Also, I would keep the restriction that attacking ends the effect. For a continuous item, that would mean that attacking any vermin would end the hide effect for 10 minutes (or whatever duration).

Assuming such a hide from vermin spell still works out to be 1st level, the formula gives a value of 3000 gp for this item, but that seems quite low. (The formula almost always undervalues continuous items of 1st-level spells.) IMC I would instead ballpark it around 10,000 gp, the same price as a Ring Of Animal Friendship.

 

[avr]

It also more or less duplicates a feat (one of the Children of Winter feats in Eberron) - I read somewhere that duplicating a feat is on the order of 5000 GP value.

 

[Azrof]

Immunity to Vermin Cloak

First and foremost:
Any affect that allows you to entirely bypass a creature, or content – without limitation is incredibly dangerous (see flying, or improved invisibility etc.) Even allowing for attacks made on the vermin to end the effect, you will need to establish TOA (Terms of Activation). I suggest 3 times a day. For 1d4+2 rounds (or 5 rounds) each time. You might increase it based on the wearer’s wisdom bonus. There are “vermin” druids who have “vermin” like abilities similar to the one this cloak would have.

*Edited Note* - The "Hide from Undead" spell allows sentient undead to resist it, making it a relatively weak spell at higher levels. A magical item without such limitations, on the other hand, would have its use scale with time, CR and creativity. *End Edited note*

That being said, though it should not need to be stated, there are vermin in DnD that should be utterly immune to such a power – vermin with Spell resistance above, say 12, should be automatically immune or the wearer would be required to make a spell penetration check with a +2 bonus or some such.
For essentially total immunity to vermin senses and a highly reduced likelihood that they would never attack the wearer (50% flee/50% confusion), I’d give it roughly the value of a +4 or higher item – depending on the creativity of your crew.
With the modifications above, I’d probably say 9k gold would be about perfect – again, depending on the creativity of your players and the amount of assets available to them.

If you would like some examples of how this could be abused, feel free to drop me a line

 

[darthkilmor]

Mimicking Hide from Undead and just swapping the type from undead to vermin seems like the best option, thanks for the replies

 

[Azrof]

Opportunities

Potential abuses:

Undead usually (at lower levels) kind of wander mindlessly. At higher levels, mindless undead either have a controller (lich, master zombie etc) that would be able to resist the affects of Hide from Undead. Vermin, on the other hand, lack such progression.

At their higher CRs, Vermin become more effective at player control due to their Swarm ability – key examples include Wasp Swarm variants (including the Hell version), the rat swarms (including undead rat swarms, though in this example not applicable) and so forth. At their highest CRs, Vermin are exemplified by Devastation Vermin – though I suspect you will never encounter or use these in your game.

So, the key attributes of the cloak as described: Vermin cannot sense the wearer (they are mindless anyway) unless attacked. And the question is – how can a player exploit this?

1: The Collector. The collector collects vermin of all sorts, gently sorting them, breeding them – invisibly creating colonies of hellfire ant swarms in bottles of sweet honeyed hell-substance. Then, when the time comes, he, with gentle care, releases his swarm – the invisible God of the colony, while they create havoc.

2: The Beguiler: The beguiler wears vermin on his skin. Yeah, it’s disgusting. Imagine the smell, or the opportunities to avoid detection. Also, consider the thought that while vermin cannot be trained, different vermin react uniquely to different situations. Put honey on a rope and loose a few rats. Who knows how long it might take to chew through the rope? May not work, but it might – to the man who is invisible to vermin, using them as allies (particularly if you allow feats or skills oriented around vermin) essentially gives the player opportunities outside the normal scope of such a cloak. There are other examples – some less pretty – honey on a victim you wish to garner information from….and cockroaches. Talk about torture. Yum. And you never have to fear the insects rising up against you.

3: The Berserker. The berserk gathers insects similarly to the collector or beguiler, but uses them in combat, flinging pots of wasps, glasses containing swarms of spiders or ants – at his opponents.

Of course, the suppositions above rely on the player being smart, and you might want to reward such activities – I usually do. It also relies on the assumption that “gathering” insects would not result in an attack (such as setting a trap, “attacking” a few to start a breeding colony and so forth). There is also an assumption of time. Ignoring all of these assumptions….

4: The opportunist. The opportunist finds environments where vermin breed – sewers, ancient locations of power where Devastation Vermin breed – and lures his enemies into those locations, collecting their gear once they die.