What Would Get You to Subscribe to Dungeon?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just rampant guesses and speculation....
<many marketing truths>

Actually, I was more or less wondering if they did any market research as to what their subscribers wanted (or thought they wanted) as opposed to just looking at the profitability of online business models in general.

IOW, nearly anyone could forsee that an electronic business model lowers costs and increases profit margins, but that still begs the question of whether they actually did any research into what their subscribers actually said they wanted from their magazines, or did they just assume that "If we build it, they will come?" Or worse in its own way, did they do market research with badly drafted questions that essentially led respondents to answer in a way that was a self-fulfilling prophesy? (Such as "Would you like Dungeon magazine to have an online format?" without revealing that it would be online only.)

The anecdotes point to the latter 2 options, but actual quality market research could have shown a real and sizeable preference for the online publishing model that shows that people like me would be an almost infinitesimal minority- not worth catering to in the final bottom-line analysis.

 

[justanobody]

The only research I know of about 4th edition and its products was a conference that someone made into a podcast about 3PP and the new direction of the d20 STL and OGL that was closed, but maybe leaked.

I never heard any market questions about it myself, and have found little in the way of it online.

Which only leaves me with guesses. One of those is that this was somethign asked at conventions, if asked, and that very secluded sample gave the results.

I would think that a split market would have worked better. But with most things running the old system parallel to the new is only common sense, so any bugs in the new can be handled by the old system while you get the new system running up to spec. In this case meaning they would have had the print versions and electronic versions at the same time so during the failings of the new system (every new system fails during implementation and must be worked on), the old system is still in place to continue making money and giving something to the customers.

Possibly cutting advertisements from the electronic version for early adopters of it as their benefit while the print version still had them, to entice people to use the electronic versions.

But this is all speculation, as I can't find ANY market research information EVER about D&D in its entire lifetime (except for comment cards in products none of which I saw in 3rd edition books or post-Paizo pre-DDI Dungeon magazines), which leads me to think it is only, or mostly, gotten from conventions that in no way represents the whole of the players, but a niche within them.

:twocents:

 

[Shroomy]

But this is all speculation, as I can't find ANY market research information EVER about D&D in its entire lifetime (except for comment cards in products none of which I saw in 3rd edition books or post-Paizo pre-DDI Dungeon magazines), which leads me to think it is only, or mostly, gotten from conventions that in no way represents the whole of the players, but a niche within them.

Do you mean you can't find any attempts at market research or that you can't find the actual market research information? I don't think that you'd ever find that kind of information (at least easily). As for example of market research, I just took a survey yesterday when visiting the WoTC D&D website (it was about Star Wars SAGA). There's an example of them doing some sort of market research.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I would think that a split market would have worked better.

So do I.

1) The physical magazines were both profitable, according to Paizo.

2) There are many periodicals (newspapers, magazines and local free press) that I read that have both physical and electronic formats. In most cases, both formats are profitable- IOW, ceasing publication of one or the other would result in a net loss of profits for the publisher.

 

[justanobody]

Do you mean you can't find any attempts at market research or that you can't find the actual market research information? I don't think that you'd ever find that kind of information (at least easily). As for example of market research, I just took a survey yesterday when visiting the WoTC D&D website (it was about Star Wars SAGA). There's an example of them doing some sort of market research.

I can't find any results that prove any kind of research was done. If I were to visit a D&D website and be asked about some other game, I would be making a phone call to chew someone out for wasting my time.

Like going to McDonald's and them asking me what I think about the Whopper(TM).

But the main point is, even with the comment cards I have never seen any kind of results like the polls on this website display actual results (skewed and flawed as forum polls can be) and not just some decision based on the alleged results.

I doubt any of that would ever be released either, but this isn't something like pharmaceuticals, so they don't have to make those things public...

@Dannyalcatraz: I agree. Call it my greed or nature, but I would want to get the most money possible which would drive me to have both versions running alongside each other.

I am also curious as to how the landscape format is working for people during gameplay as this is another change that affects people. We have heard about the costs of printing and people not liking the ink-wasting bars on the pages when trying to print, but how does the new format work when playing?

For reading at leisure it really stinks, one reason I never buy a book that is wider than it is tall.

So could that have caused a want to not print the magazines anymore that most companies are not set up to print or bind that format, or was that format just to "fit" on the newest model HD widescreens that not everyone has?

 

[Shroomy]

But more likely than not, you are never, ever going to find actual market research results published on the web, at least, not anything a sane executive would base multi-million dollar business decisions on (forum polls generally do not fall into that category, though they are not without their use).

Also, I don't think that asking a randomly selected visitor to the WoTC D&D website (at least those who bother to take the minute or two to reply) about their RPG and miniature playing/purchasing habits, followed by some focused questions on their other major RPG brand doesn't seem so out there to me. There's likely to be cross-over, or at the very least, knowledge of the SAGA system among those interested in D&D (which is where I fall).

 

[Shroomy]

Also, I love the landscape format; I now detest reading any pdfs in letter format, even at work. The landscape format fits the dimensions of my screen perfectly, and given that its a laptop, I usually just carry it around with me (I'm playing a 4e artificer, so I need to bring it with me to my Monday night games). Now, if I really wanted to print out an article, I would likely just copy and paste what I needed into a word document, either from the pdf itself or from the DDI Compendium, and then print what I needed.

 

[jdrakeh]

A return to a non-D&D-specific format, with reviews, adventures, and advice for other popular games (which I suspect will never happen). More mini-games (as those that formerly appeared in Polyhedron). Accessories such as counters, battle maps, and such (all of which would be easy to implement in an electronic format).

 

[El Mahdi]

. . .I would love to go to Kinko's or a similar place to print out select articles. But I can't! It doesn't matter how many sales receipts I have, they won't print out a copy for me unless I give them some kind of formal permission on company letterhead.

So, WotC, give me a document that I can give to the clerk / manager at Kinko's. This document gives me permission to print out the data I paid for on their equipment. (Which I don't think I need, but that's another rant.) I most definately do not play D&D with a laptop at the table, so I need to print out the documents I want to use. For my own reasons, I don't want to use my printer if I don't need to. I can't absorb the printing costs via a third party because I don't have permission from WotC to do so. (*grrr*)

That's a pretty good point. I have a decent printer but ink is seriously pricey. Maybe you could send some feedback to WoTC at dndinsider@wizards.com. Maybe they could post a blurb on all of there compiled pdf's that grants anyone the right to print them. I don't know if they will, but if they don't have a problem with people printing them, it only seems fair they facilitate this for subscribers. I can't imagine anyone doing mass printings in order to sell them. There wouldn't be any profit in someone deciding to print out pdf's and sell them as mags. It would probably cost more to print than they could ever sell them for.

 

[jdrakeh]

I would love to go to Kinko's or a similar place to print out select articles. But I can't! It doesn't matter how many sales receipts I have, they won't print out a copy for me unless I give them some kind of formal permission on company letterhead.

Well, quite frankly, this isn't WotC's problem — your copy shop isn't being reasonable. Expecting WotC to generate a custom letterhead signed in ink for every PDF that they sell in order to satisfy the paranoid printing policy of Kinko's is not reasonable. I suspect that they're purposefully asking for an unobtainable document so that they can avoid printing commercial PDF files completely.

In some RPGNow PDFs, a small watermark is embedded in the corner of every page that has your name and the purchase number on it. Combined with a receipt, this seems to be proof enough for reasonable printers. Asking WotC to do something like this seems like a good idea. That having been said, your copy shop still won't accept something that as proof, chances are that they will never accept anything as proof.