D&D General What Would Happen if Fiends Came to Fill the "Low CR Monsters" Niche?

[Charlaquin]

5e lore says they are born of normal hyenas that were corrupted by demon ichor. New gnolls are created when hyenas (and sometimes other creatures) eat dead gnoll meat and transform into "adult" gnolls. They barely work with any other races, create no tools or living spaces, only communicate in the simplest terms, and have no families or young.


This is very different than previous edition lore, and some exceptions (such as Eberron) exist. They were set up to be basically unnatural engines of terror and destruction that orcs could only dream of being, and it's been soundly rejected by people who just want a hyena-headed PC race.

I don't imagine a 'gnoll 2.0" will fair much better.

Yes, the 5e lore casts gnolls as demon-spawn. The problem is, the people (such as myself) who want playable gnolls don’t like that lore, and don’t want gnolls to be fiends at all. Maybe if you kept the same lore, but had them look like horrible monsters, people would be more accepting of it, but the fact of the matter is, they look like anthropomorphic hyenas. You combine an animal and a human, and inevitably a huge number of people will find it sympathetic. Folks want their cool hyena people, and they don’t want them to be always-evil monsters created from tainted demon meat.

 

[Remathilis]

Yes, the 5e lore casts gnolls as demon-spawn. The problem is, the people (such as myself) who want playable gnolls don’t like that lore, and don’t want gnolls to be fiends at all. Maybe if you kept the same lore, but had them look like horrible monsters, people would be more accepting of it, but the fact of the matter is, they look like anthropomorphic hyenas. You combine an animal and a human, and inevitably a huge number of people will find it sympathetic. Folks want their cool hyena people, and they don’t want them to be always-evil monsters created from tainted demon meat.

That's fine. Difference of opinion.

I LOVE the new gnolls. I like that they were absolute beasts, fiends in mortal flesh, and more a force of nature than a another humanoid race. It made them unique and not "furry orcs" and it didn't bother me in the least they aren't a PC race. After Volos guide, I used more gnoll encounters than I had in 20 years prior.

Remove that and gnolls are just another furry PC race to go along with tabaxi, tortles and harengon in Zootopia D&D.

 

[Cadence]

Remove that and gnolls are just another furry PC race to go along with tabaxi, tortles and harengon in Zootopia D&D.

But if we go back farther they are half-gnome!!! Think of the fun of dragging them out every time you have a gnome in the party!

 

[Voadam]

But if we go back farther they are half-gnome!!! Think of the fun of dragging them out every time you have a gnome in the party!

<gnome singing>"We don't talk about gnolls, no, no, no. We don't talk about gnolls, no, no, no."</gnome singing>

 

[Remathilis]

But if we go back farther they are half-gnome!!! Think of the fun of dragging them out every time you have a gnome in the party!

I'd all be for making them 7 ft tall gnomes with regeneration.

 

[fba827]

While it is not a "problem" just something to consider. Low level PCs (that would be dealing with the low CR creatures) are often narratively assumed to be dealing with more mundane threats more commonly, with extraplanar beings being a random appearance growing more and more as PCs get higher in level dealing with larger scale (ie city-region-continent-world-planes).
So if you do shift demons and devils down to a more common level of appearance just be sure you have a concept of what will fill higher CR narrative arcs and not feel repetitive ("for 20 levels we've been fighting just different strengths of devils...")

 

[Voadam]

I'd all be for making them 7 ft tall gnomes with regeneration.

7 ft. tall gnomes . . . hmm. Spriggans?

 

[Cadence]

7 ft. tall gnomes . . . hmm. Spriggans?

Just scale them up. I might just have to explore this idea...

 

[Scribe]

Folks want their cool hyena people, and they don’t want them to be always-evil monsters created from tainted demon meat.

Lucky for them, its as simple as remembering a 'Typically' is assumed and has existed since the release of the MM in 2014, and they can say a Wizard did it for anything else.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Because they are evil and want to eat you ?

I'd argue that the latter alone is a sufficient cause for a conflict. Granted, it wouldn't be entirely unlikely for the prospective dinner to assume the former as well, but they would hardly be impartial in making such a judgement.