D&D General What Would Happen if Fiends Came to Fill the "Low CR Monsters" Niche?

[Paul Farquhar]

Are there even formian rules in 5e?

Not officially, I wonder if people confuse lawful with "nice" and don't like to kill even mindless drones.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I've noticed that in sci-fi settings there is often some 'insect swarm' type enemy which the heroes can kill without remorse. Tyranids being an example.

I'm not sure if DnD has anything equivalent to that. The good thing about some tyranid-like hive mind species (obviously toned way down to fantasy levels) is that it can be intelligent enough to give players a more complex fight like they're looking for. While also being pretty safe from people wanting to play 'good adventurer' versions of those same creatures.

Kython?

(from the 3e Book of Vile Darkness)

They're a pretty close ripoff of the xenomorphs form aliens, although without the egg bit and technically they're fiends.

 

[d24454_modern]

Adding the word “many” to the description of evil gnolls doesn’t actually do anything to shift the lore. Show is what the non-evil gnolls look like, don’t just tell us they could theoretically exist somewhere. Then give us PC stats for them.

That feels somewhat restrictive in my opinion.

A good person can look and act like anything so long as they’re not doing anything bad.

There wouldn’t be a point in codifying what a good creature tends to act like. That’s why even stereotypically good creatures such as Dwarves and Elves only really have their culture expanded upon; not their “goodness”.

 

[Charlaquin]

That feels somewhat restrictive in my opinion.

A good person can look and act like anything so long as they’re not doing anything bad.

There wouldn’t be a point in codifying what a good creature tends to act like. That’s why even stereotypically good creatures such as Dwarves and Elves only really have their culture expanded upon; not their “goodness”.

So expand on the culture of gnolls.

 

[Faolyn]

I've noticed that in sci-fi settings there is often some 'insect swarm' type enemy which the heroes can kill without remorse. Tyranids being an example.

I'm not sure if DnD has anything equivalent to that. The good thing about some tyranid-like hive mind species (obviously toned way down to fantasy levels) is that it can be intelligent enough to give players a more complex fight like they're looking for. While also being pretty safe from people wanting to play 'good adventurer' versions of those same creatures.

There's kruthiks in this edition. They're hive-minded, insectoid and reptiloid, and intelligent.

 

[Scribe]

So expand on the culture of gnolls.

Eberron did, didn't it?

This 'multiverse' approach certainly looks like its going to push the heavy lifting off to specific setting books, and honestly I doubt anything gets as well supported by someone that actually cares for the setting, as Eberron.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There's kruthiks in this edition. They're hive-minded, insectoid and reptiloid, and intelligent.

And look like zerg.

 

[Reynard]

But if we go back farther they are half-gnome!!!

This alone is enough reason to make them a kill-on-sight race.

 

[Reynard]

So expand on the culture of gnolls.

Why don't you expand on the culture of gnolls? When WotC does it, now everyone else has to do the work to remove it or revise it to fit their world. But if WotC tells you in the MM the very bare bones about gnolls, each table and setting book is free to define them however they want: puppy dude,evil demonic hyena man, noble Klingerike (my take years ago). The core game doesn't need ANY lore, really.

 

[Minigiant]

You mean Diablo?

 

[Mind of tempest]

You mean Diablo?

or doom.

 

[Peter BOSCO'S]

I've been thinking for a while that D&D, if it wanted to, could just shift a lot of the negative traits ascribed to goblins and orcs and whatever to certain low CR demons and make them more common as low-level enemies.

Thoughts?

If Demons started being more Common wouldn't it just lead to, literal, witch hunts for Demon summoners?
More Demons = more marginalized and minority people who may not be guilty being killed by suspicious neigbors and authoritarian goverments. Unless you first establish a clear mechanism for "more demons" and ensure that everyone in the world knows about it, a "planar conjunction" perhaps, so everyone knows that the Demons are not being summoned than you'll get witch hunts.

"If you see something demonic, say something to the Inquisition about who summoned it." "If you try to protect an accused demon summoner that proves that you must be a demon summoner too." "We must kill suspected demon summoners to protect the children!" = What NPC's would say and do.

 

[Faolyn]

If Demons started being more Common wouldn't it just lead to, literal, witch hunts for Demon summoners?
More Demons = more marginalized and minority people who may not be guilty being killed by suspicious neigbors and authoritarian goverments. Unless you first establish a clear mechanism for "more demons" and ensure that everyone in the world knows about it, a "planar conjunction" perhaps, so everyone knows that the Demons are not being summoned than you'll get witch hunts.

"If you see something demonic, say something to the Inquisition about who summoned it." "If you try to protect an accused demon summoner that proves that you must be a demon summoner too." "We must kill suspected demon summoners to protect the children!" = What NPC's would say and do.

In the right hands, that could be a good campaign hook. In the real world, horrible things were done during witch hunts. In D&Dland, however, there's a host of spells that could easily be cast to determine who is actually at fault: detect evil and good, detect magic, detect thoughts. And DM fiat could limit use of these spells to people who have credible evidence against them. While there could easily be "summoner-hunters" and an inquisition, simple, low-level magic could very easily replace the torture and trial by ordeal.

 

[Bluebell]

Witch hunts or inquisitions are a possible element that could definitely work, but I don't see why it would have to be a given. There are so many examples in fiction of demons showing up as a consequence of say, a curse that was allowed to fester, or ground that was desecrated by a battle, or there happened to be a portal into hell in the area, or some prophecy is driving them to seek something or someone, or even just as a natural phenomenon. There's no reason why demons, or the social reactions to them, have to exist in this specific Christian mindset.

 

[Faolyn]

Witch hunts or inquisitions are a possible element that could definitely work, but I don't see why it would have to be a given. There are so many examples in fiction of demons showing up as a consequence of say, a curse that was allowed to fester, or ground that was desecrated by a battle, or there happened to be a portal into hell in the area, or some prophecy is driving them to seek something or someone, or even just as a natural phenomenon. There's no reason why demons, or the social reactions to them, have to exist in this specific Christian mindset.

Actually, a lot of non-Western mythology has demons like this as well. Demons just exist and are evil spirits; they're not necessarily the creation of evil gods or what happens to damned souls (although an evil person might turn into a demon because of their deeds).