D&D 4E What would make you decide against 4e?

[Betote]

I'll almost surely buy the 3 core books just to read them. I'll use them instead of my loved 3.5 ones if:

- 4E plays faster than 3.x without removing any of the options available to characters and DMs.
- I can still run the same kind of campaigns I run in 3.x (mostly Greyhawk-y or JRPG-ish stuff).
- My players want to do the switch.

 

[Fieari]

If the math does not work out as promised at a far larger range of levels, I'll not use it. I'm especially interested in level 20-30.

If the different "styles" aren't significantly different from each other... that is, 1-10 and 20-30 are the same game except with bigger numbers, I'll not use it.

If the mechanics for monsters and PCs are so different that a PC couldn't play a random monster race if he wanted, I'll be exceedingly disappointed.

If the multiclassing rules aren't as flexible or more so than 3.x, I'm not interested.

On the other hand, I'm very interested in the game being balanced around being exciting for every single battle, instead of just the 4th battle of the day... so per encounter abilities are awesome in my book. This alone is enough to make me very interested in the game, and I'll buy and try it regardless for this reason alone. I'm a big fan of few, but memorable encounters, meaning the 4 per day assumption just doesn't work for me.

In 3.x, I have to strive to wear down players resources in order to make such encounters interesting, or I have to throw stuff much more powerful than them at them... which is always a VERY tricky situation to balance. Is it too much? Is it not enough? Wizard magic is a big part of this. Either the spells are going to work so well, the encounter might as well be a minor speed bump, or the spells are worthless (or not available, used up, etc) and the encounter is this close to being a TPK. That's not a good set of options for me.

Additionally, I love the generic fantasy world that the D&D rules allow for... since it allows homebrewed campaign settings really easily. It accommodates everything. If 4e messes with the customizable world aspect? That's too much for me. I -need- D&D to allow for generic fantasy. I'm not asking for GURPs, I'm just asking that the rules not be nailed to the fluff.

 

[neceros]

Probably nothing short of the apocalypse.

 

[sjmiller]

Right now a lot of things are making me decide not to get 4e, not the least of which are the following:

• Removal of some favorite races from the initial PH.
• The fact that there will be more than one PH.
• The gutting of the core classes, removing many my groups favorite classes.
• The inclusion of certain new core races just because they saw a cool picture.
• The heavy influence/dependence on internet additions to the game.
• The heavy influence of genre and media types that I dislike (CRPGs, MMORPGs, manga, anime, etc.).
• The creation of a new edition when I don't feel a new one is needed (this applied to 3.5 as well).
• The current marketing strategy which has the development team saying the current game is terrible/bad/broken/whatever, yet saying we should still be buying stuff and playing till the "super cool, really neat, but we can't tell you anything about it" edition comes out.

I could go on, but those are my thoughts as of this moment.

 

[Drammattex]

...if Wotc fails to deliver on their goal of "faster, better, more refined", and instead replace all the old complexities with new ones.

Same.

Without reading the previous 3 pages, I'll say I agree with a lot of stuff on page 1 of this thread.

So far, 4e looks great, but I'm suspicious of martial types with supernatural powers. I don't think that's what "Power Source" means, I think it's how it sounds that has me freaked. As long as I don't have to rewrite the PHB in order to run a campaign where the players are all medieval knights (or rogues), I'll probably be happy. The minute a player starts protesting that his 12th level fighter gets to do crazy anime moves, I'll start revising the game... which I'd prefer not to have to do. Ultimately, I'd like to have the freedom to simulate a Conan feel or a Song of Ice and Fire feel without major retooling. While I realize that D&D 4e is not intended to simulate those worlds, I feel very strongly that the martial classes should look and feel like, well, martial classes. Bah, I'm just rambling now.

 

[BlackMoria]

Same.

Without reading the previous 3 pages, I'll say I agree with a lot of stuff on page 1 of this thread.

So far, 4e looks great, but I'm suspicious of martial types with supernatural powers. I don't think that's what "Power Source" means, I think it's how it sounds that has me freaked. As long as I don't have to rewrite the PHB in order to run a campaign where the players are all medieval knights (or rogues), I'll probably be happy. The minute a player starts protesting that his 12th level fighter gets to do crazy anime moves, I'll start revising the game... which I'd prefer not to have to do. Ultimately, I'd like to have the freedom to simulate a Conan feel or a Song of Ice and Fire feel without major retooling. While I realize that D&D 4e is not intended to simulate those worlds, I feel very strongly that the martial classes should look and feel like, well, martial classes. Bah, I'm just rambling now.

I would say to be prepared to be disappointed.

Everything that has come out so far indicates that the 4E Fighter would fit nicely into a wuxia style campaign (like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or The House of Flying Daggers) and would appear very 'out of place' in a Conan-esque or traditional Swords and Sorcery type campaign. IMO.

 

[Drammattex]

I'm prepared... but optimistic.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

What if Mike Mearls kicks you in the nuts and that kills you? Do the two things cancel each other out?

Well, obviously. It's written into my will that my vast estate must be, in that circumstance, auctioned off and used to purchase 4th edition books, which will be buried with me.

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

I would say to be prepared to be disappointed.

Everything that has come out so far indicates that the 4E Fighter would fit nicely into a wuxia style campaign (like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon or The House of Flying Daggers) and would appear very 'out of place' in a Conan-esque or traditional Swords and Sorcery type campaign. IMO.

Except for, you know, the information coming out of WotC, rather than your . Like this bit, posted on the handy main 4e page for edification (and rumor-quelling):

On the suggestion of magic/anime feel to fighter powers, WotC Logan confirms that the majority will be non-magical: "...at high levels, the fighter does push beyond the limits of human (or elf or dwarf) ability. Also, if someone wanted to make their fighter more magical-feeling, they could muck about with the flavor of the powers to make them less mundane."

As regards the subject of the thread? No spellbooks. I've come around to -really- liking just about everything about them except the memorize-fire-forget cycle of D&D. If there's no tome, it's not coming in my home.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

What if Mike Mearls kicks you in the nuts and that kills you? Do the two things cancel each other out?

I'd thought I'd heard that "Exploding Nutkick of DOOM!!!" was a new feat in 4th Edition, but I thought that was just a rumor.