What would the Spell Resistance be on a Drow Forsaker?

[Corlon]

Drow forsakers, very fun

I don't have much to add to this, except that I think they do stack, and that Drow forsakers are cool. Stacking these makes the forsaker better at stopping magic. It seems a bit powerful, but when you take into account that he can't use magic, and he loses 2 levels! Its not too bad.

 

[reapersaurus]

Let's see here....

So the FAQ, in its infinite struggle for 'balancing', decided to:

1) Weaken the Forsaker's attribute bonuses by saying they are just like Wish bonuses (max of +5)
2) Deny the idea of 'storing' the magic item destruction for over 24 hours if you destroy a powerful item.
3) Deny any stacking of DR.
4) Weaken the Spell Resistance by removing the class level bonus.

Hmmm.... so they took a barely-playable PC and nerfed it into an absolutely unplayable one.

Congrats, Wizards!

 

[Xarlen]

Yeap, Reap.

 

[Caliban]

Let's see here....

So the FAQ, in its infinite struggle for 'balancing', decided to:

1) Weaken the Forsaker's attribute bonuses by saying they are just like Wish bonuses (max of +5)

Why wouldn't they be limited to +5? The DMG states that inherent bonuses to ability scores are limited to +5 (DMG, page 177), and the Forsaker doesn't say anything that would override that.

The FAQ didn't change anything on that score.

2) Deny the idea of 'storing' the magic item destruction for over 24 hours if you destroy a powerful item.

Nothing in the Forsaker class description suggests that you can "store" this ability, so why do you think the FAQ should add it?

3) Deny any stacking of DR.

The FAQ does not do this. Only SR that is level-based will not stack, because the Forsaker prestige class already has level-based SR. Any other type of SR still stacks with the Forsaker SR.

4) Weaken the Spell Resistance by removing the class level bonus.

It does not remove the class level bonus, it merely states that your level can only count towards SR once (when dealing with SR that increases with your level).

Hmmm.... so they took a barely-playable PC and nerfed it into an absolutely unplayable one.

Congrats, Wizards!

Nice bit of melodrama, but you might try doing better research next time.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Why wouldn't they be limited to +5? The DMG states that inherent bonuses to ability scores are limited to +5 (DMG, page 177), and the Forsaker doesn't say anything that would override that.
The FAQ didn't change anything on that score.

Nothing in the Forsaker class description suggests that you can "store" this ability, so why do you think the FAQ should add it?

The FAQ does not do this. Only SR that is level-based will not stack, because the Forsaker prestige class already has level-based SR. Any other type of SR still stacks with the Forsaker SR.

It does not remove the class level bonus, it merely states that your level can only count towards SR once (when dealing with SR that increases with your level).

Nice bit of melodrama, but you might try doing better research next time.

I have to agree with all of the above. It was not written specifically enough in some regards, but I see no back peddling. They probably ment the SR to stack with things like Mantles and SR spells.

If you do allow stacking, I would still only count the Forsaker levels twice. Not even counting the 2x Forsaker levels, the PC is going to have a minimum of 22 SR + level. That means that even the "end of level boss" will have little to ZERO chance of getting thru. You migh as well turn it into magic immunity at that point.

 

[Xarlen]

Why would they put it in there that it can't stack with Mantles and SR spells If the class cannot except magical items or spells, without losing all abilities?

 

[reapersaurus]

Nice bit of melodrama, but you might try doing better research next time.

Glad you liked it, Caliban.
It brought you out of hiding.

But seriously, I know the DR thing was no suprise, but since I was addressing the points in the FAQ, I thought I'd add them all in order.
I could have just mentioned the SR weakening, but I thought it would be more appropriate to include all the clarifications in one lump post.

About the SR - while I agree that is powerful if you allow the SR's to stack as written in the class description, it barely makes up for the almost-incalculable sacrifice of giving up ALL MAGIC.

If you as a player are going to waive all benefits of magic in the magic-drenched and magic-dependant world of 3E, you should be completely immune to magic IMO.

All a super-high SR does is fairly guarantee that your character will not be affected by magic.

You can still be affected by everything else.
It does not make you overpowered in any way, shape or form.

It doesn't even make you immune to a mage's spells, since he can throw trees at you, open pits below you, etc.
It just makes it so a mage has to think harder about ways to affect you.
We've gone over this before, and it is too easy to bypass SR as it is for a PC that gives up every benefit of magic.

 

[Caliban]

About the SR - while I agree that is powerful if you allow the SR's to stack as written in the class description, it barely makes up for the almost-incalculable sacrifice of giving up ALL MAGIC.

Technically, the Forsaker SR should only stack with effects that specifically grant a bonus to spell resistance.

In 3e, "stacking" generally refers to bonuses. Spell Resistance would almost never stack, because it's almost never classified as a bonus, just a set amount of resistance. That's apparently not what they mean, given the answer in the FAQ, so it's an example of a builder book not following the terminology of the core rules.

The entire Forsaker class is poorly thought out (in my opinion), and that ability is no different.

Xarlen has a point in that forsakers aren't supposed to use magic items or accept spells, so how would they get another form of Spell Resistance to stack with their class resistance?

They would have to have an ally "trick" them into accepting a magic item without their knowledge, or have some form of racial spell resistance that is not level based.

 

[Xarlen]

Hey, I think the class *concept* rocks monkies. BUT, it needs tooling to make it effective for PCs.

I Like the concept of not relying on magic. But then, you get Compensation. However, some of it seriously bites (The fact you have to destroy items ON SIGHT to get DR, and then it goes away soon).

As someone mentioned in the House Rules section, a Forsaker, someone who's bent on destroying *all* magic, has no reason to sit with a hoard of 2,000 worth of magical items, then just break one when he needs DR. He'd break it *on sight*, otherwise he's openly harboring magic for his own usage.

A Drow forsaker would Kick. But, as pointed out, you're giving up:
+2 levels.
Spell like abilites.

So, it seems just Fair that the Drow's SR would stack with the Forsaker's. Drow are naturally resistant to spells. Forsakers are too. Thus, a Drow Forsaker would be super resistant.

 

[FANGO]

Ooh, I get to prove caliban wrong :-D

A forsaker would, in fact, not benefit from being 'tricked' into using a magic item by an ally, because regardless of whether they are tricked or not, if they ever benefit from magic, whether wilfully or not, they will lose all of their class abilities for at least a week (a year and a day if they deliberately benefitted from magic). So the forsaker's SR being able to stack with the SR from an item is completely moot, because as soon as they get the SR from the item they lose their forsaker SR.

Also...there are plenty of ways for mages to beat high SR...spell penetration and spell power both add to caster level checks to overcome SR, and in my party there is a character who, without even maxing his character to beat SR (I don't even think he has any spell penetration-type feats...), has his level +6 to caster level checks. Also, there are a number of spells that don't even allow SR, or that would not allow SR in certain circumstances (transmute rock to mud comes to mind...i do believe this would work, but I haven't checked the spell description...and forcecage definitely works, and allows no SR or save whatsoever, leaving the mage plenty of time to sit and cast spells until he eventually beats your SR, or just to laugh at you and leave you there for a full day or so).