What would you do during a Bad Guy Attack

[Janx]

I was watching a TV, that involved a bad guy going into a place with lots of people and he starts whacking a bunch of them, and squirting bad stuff into the eyes of anybody who came at him.

The TV show made this tactic be really effective. As in he killed a good number of people, and everybody else ran away.

I call BS. Sure, each one of us is going to gut check and decide to run away or not. But for one man to walk in an start hitting people and nobody thinks to gang up and take this guy out as a team attack just seems ludicrous.

Is society so pansy arsed that we lack the testicular fortitude to take out a bad guy ourselves? Especially when the weapon set isn't extreme (a blunt object and a squirt gun, probably bleach).

In the show, rushing the guy with chairs would have kept him from whacking you. A multiple man atack probably could have overcome the squirt gun. A fire extinguisher was panned by the camera, so you could grab that and blast him.

Thoughts? Are you in the camp of "darn straight I would run", or "I would try to take this guy out if I could".

Bear in mind, what you say here and what you'd actually do may differ by a mile.

I'm more curious to see if the protrayal of the average citizen in the face of danger matches your view.

 

[Crothian]

Depends on the situation. If I'm there with my family and friends, I'm going to run away with them and make sure they are safe. Also, it depends on how the guy is attacking people. Is he armed with guns or just using a sword? There are way too many variables to say for sure what I would do.

 

[Janx]

Specifically, a hammer and a squirtgun filled with something painful to get in your eyes. The attack occurs in a cube farm. Meaning, you might not see the initial attack, but at some point its pretty clear some nutjob 4 cubes over is attacking people with a hammer.

Range would be limited to probably 20 feet for the squirt gun.

A real gun changes things, but thats mainly because of range. Guns outrange civillians, so you have less practical means to deal with it.

So, the situation, it's you and your coworkers. Many are running away from the guy. Somehow, because of directorial editing, the nutjob is still able to walk up to people and whack them. At some point, he'll even stop to multi-whack somebody.

My reaction to the scene was surprise that the attack succeeded. To me, I expect some % of my fellow adult humanoids to circle the guy and rush him. Instead, the writers portrayed our fellow humanity as panicky and unable to return violence in kind.

 

[Crothian]

If I was at my cubical then I could do something. I used to take apart and assemble them and so I keep tools there and can eaily and quickly undo a small filing cabinet and have a heavy projectile weapon.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Most people don't fight.

It's rather heavily discouraged in public circumstances, so people don't get used to engaging in any sort of personal combat, so they (a) don't know what to do and (b) aren't mentally prepared to engage in a fight. (b) is actually more important than (a), I think.

Eventually, you might work yourself up to charge the guy and try and do something, but surprise is a condition that takes a significant amount of time for the untrained to break themselves out of, and by that point you might already have your skull bashed in. It'll certainly help if you have an idea on what to do beforehand.

For example, at my place of employment (call center), we had instructions on what to do in case of an armed intruder, which were to try to flee to a room with a locking door and lock it behind us (...man, that would really suck to have the door closed on you...). I'd already identified the room that was nearby in our IT department that I'd try and herd my teammates to, which helpfully had a cabinet that several of us could move in front of the door to barricade ourselves in. Of course, if my colleagues happened to be on the phone at the time, they might not realize the need to flee, so I'd have to take time to let them know what's going on, and that might be enough time for the armed intruder to get near enough to render my plans moot.

Unfortunately, due to a reorganization, instead of the nice set of cube farms, we now are crowded into one cube plantation, with almost no lockable offices available in which to flee. SFAICT, my best chance is to run for the stairs. (Note to self: Pester the office manager for new instructions)

And let's say you do work yourself up to charge the armed intruder. Is anyone else going to? If you can coordinate these things with a co-worker, you have a much better chance. However, you may not have an opportunity to coordinate; just because you've broken out of your shock doesn't mean they have, or they may have come to the conclusion that it's best to run and hide rather than fight back. If you charge the better-equipped and -motivated intruder expecting help and it doesn't show up, you're probably screwed.

Another problem is that you don't necessarily have complete information on what's going on. "Why didn't they charge the person while he was reloading?" gets asked in these situations quite often. It's entirely possible that nobody's in a place where they can see that in time to make the decision to charge. Even cube farms can block line of sight and hearing, so you won't be able to have full intelligence about what's going on. So, you may not even know there's a Disgruntled Armed Intruder until he bashes you in the back of the head with a hammer.

Brad

 

[Janx]

good considerations.

I have a black belt. I've been trained to panic better than the average civillian.

But I like to think that all the violent movies we all watch has not placated us all into pacifistic hammer splats. Which would be really ironic that people who decry all the violent media, if our society is less capable of violence towards our fellow man because of all the violent media...

Now i fully expect some % of people to just run away. That's a perfectly fine plan, especially versus McHammer.

Probably more ironic, your chances of survival running or facing McHammer should be greater than vs. a gunman. Guns shoot farther, even when you're running away. And running away from a hammer is pretty easy.

You could pull a drawer out and use it as a shield. Pick up a chair and use the legs to keep him at bay. A bunch of people doing that could overwhelm him.

The squirt gun is probably the tricky part. McHammer squirts something that burns into peoples eyes. It gives him range, and lets him take out anybody who approaches him.

I have no doubt, somebody's going to get hit by a hammer or taken out by the squirt gun. But 2-3 dudes have a better chance of tackling him.

As for intel on the attack, there was surprisingly little screaming. That should be another important thing in the training, try to scream in a shreaking fashion when you see something horrible happen in the cube farm. that way your cube mates are alert to real trouble and source. Then, the more burly of them can deal with it (and hopefully the ones who carried a gun, despite the workplace rule against it).

 

[Plane Sailing]

I would have thought that the rational response of most civilians in those circumstances is escape and alert the authorities. Situations like United 93 are a different kettle of fish since the citizens had no means of escape, and some time to recognise the situation and organise.

 

[Janx]

I would have thought that the rational response of most civilians in those circumstances is escape and alert the authorities. Situations like United 93 are a different kettle of fish since the citizens had no means of escape, and some time to recognise the situation and organise.

From an individual standpoint, probably so. The "I don't have to out run the bear, just you" system may apply.

I ponder if the world would be better though, if instead of doing the smart thing, and handing over wallets to muggers, and running from terrorists if we fought them tooth and nail.

Tactically, we'd be down a few good citizens.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I was watching a TV, that involved a bad guy going into a place with lots of people and he starts whacking a bunch of them, and squirting bad stuff into the eyes of anybody who came at him.

Was that a recent episode of Luther?

I ponder if the world would be better though, if instead of doing the smart thing, and handing over wallets to muggers, and running from terrorists if we fought them tooth and nail.

There was a guy who started shooting a semiauto or automatic gun at the White House from the sidewalk a few years ago- nearly everyone scattered... But when he stopped shooting- either to reload or because his weapon jammed- he was tackled by one man, who was soon joined by others.

Shortly thereafter, the Secret Service arrived for cleanup. No deaths.

Had those civilians not done what they did, there would probably have been a bodycount. I admire the hell out of those men. I'd like to believe more people would act as they did.

But lets be realistic- that kind of courage is a rare commodity, and you really can't know if you have it until you're put in that kind of situation.

At any rate, salute to all those who do have that within them.

 

[Janx]

But lets be realistic- that kind of courage is a rare commodity, and you really can't know if you have it until you're put in that kind of situation.

At any rate, salute to all those who do have that within them.

Yup, it was Luther, but I didn't want to spoil too much.

I agree it's certainly easy to talk big about your heroic plans, as compared to when the chips are finally down. But socially, our starting position is to advocate running away, not standing up. Which is odd, given our appetite for Bruce Willis films where he kicks terrorist butt everytime.