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What would you like to see 3rd parties produce for 4E?

Nothing, really, I guess. With the compendium and builder, I have access to the data on my computer. I can print off the monsters for each encounter, formatting them as I see fit.

With a 3rd party book, I've got stuff outside those two toolsets. That reduces the overall effectiveness for me.

If I were to buy anything, though, It might be a book of dungeon delves made by a 3rd party, still utilizing monsters/tiles from WotC.

A book of artifacts are useful, too, since the artifact info doesn't show up in full on the Compendium or Builder.
 

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Hi folks,

I just wanted to drop in and say that Goodman Games is actively working on a number of products that cover some of the suggestions in this thread. I can't go into any more detail than that, but trust me, we pay close attention to these discussions. ;)

BD
 


Basically, yeah. But done well.

To be honest, Dungeon Delve does sound like exactly what I am after, but I am loathe to trust WotC's adventure design given what I have read about them. Certainly the free excerpt did nothing to sway me to buy the book. A Level 8 ELITE in an encounter with Level 3 PCs?!?! What on earth is going on there?

Plus, more plot that I fear I would get from that. Basically, what Mustrum_Ridcully said.
err... you mean like Kalarel in KotS? You can use higher level monsters in an encounter as long as you follow the point buy guideline to make an appropriate encounter level.

While many people praise Goodman Games adventures they often have very Grindy high level elite and solo creatures as well...
 

The one problem with System/Edition Neutral books I've heard from publishers is that they don't sell as much. So while "Book of Fluff" etc may seem very system specific, it also puts the product out there. And it's filling in the gaps that people seem to find.

Additionally, there can be small nuggets of crunch. Paizo's "Classic Monsters Revisited" had gems of rules scattered throughout. In some entries, they had "Variants" which had spell like abilities or other powers, which had lore attached to it.
 

I'm looking forward to Necromancer beginning to publish for 4e again (as they are planning to) but I don't know how far off that will be.
All I have been able to find is his 4E "classic" project. While I would be interested to see what he comes up with, this is low on the list of what I want from Necromancer. I want more quality adventures and I want Tome of Horrors 4E!!
 

err... you mean like Kalarel in KotS? You can use higher level monsters in an encounter as long as you follow the point buy guideline to make an appropriate encounter level.

While many people praise Goodman Games adventures they often have very Grindy high level elite and solo creatures as well...
Yeah, you can use higher level monsters against PCs, I just don't think you should.

As you say, the high proportion of higher level elites and solos are the number one reason that contributes towards the grind. I find that is a really lazy way to approach adventure writing. An approach I can easily do myself. I find 4th edition works best when the PCs are outnumbered, even by lower level foes. Elites and Solos (especially higher level ones) actively work against that.

Instead of looking for creative ways to make an encounter harder, the easy way is to stick a high level elite in there. I can do that myself. If I am paying for something, I want it to be substantially better than what I can produce myself. I want it to have cool, evocative fights with plenty of terrain to interact with and a wide range of opponents. I want every battle to be meaningful, avoid stagnating and grind, and advance the plot.

My ideal dungeon would have 2 - 3 encounters (Party level to Party Level +2 or 3), a skill challenge or two and a then the big, dymanic, edge of the seat, pull out all the stops boss battle where the PCs are outnumbered 2-1 (Party level +4 or even 5). Wrap up the whole adventure in a session, then come back next week and deal with the plot hooks the PCs want to follow up and run the next, evocative, interesting adventure.

Do I want I lot? You bet I do! I have high expectations for my gaming dollar these days. If it's not better than I can do in a few minutes with a conversion of one of my (many) 3.5 APs then I'm not really interested sorry.

But give me something that takes my game to another level with a minimum of prep and effort from me, and I will be all over it like white on rice.
 

1. A new barbarian class w/o the elemental garbage. Something closer to David Howery's revision of the 1e Barbarian from Dragon Magazine.
2. An alternate warlock
3. An alternate sorceror
4. Alternatives to the Paladin's Divine Challenge
5. Alternative rules for Action Points making them more like M&M Hero Points
including incorporating Healing Surges into Action Point uses
6. Alternative rules for milestones
7. Alternative rules for Daily Magic Items
8. Removing the +1/2 level to ability checks
9. HP loss penalties
10. Illusions that don't do damage
11. Alternative rules for Animal Companions
12. Alternative rules for Spirit Companions
13. Alternative rules for familiars
14. New Ritual rules
15. Magic Items that are not boring
16. An equipment book that is not lame as was AV.
 
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1. A new barbarian class w/o the elemental garbage. Something closer to David Howery's revision of the 1e Barbarian from Dragon Magazine.
2. An alternate warlock
3. An alternate sorceror
4. Alternatives to the Paladin's Divine Challenge
5. Alternative rules for Action Points making them more like M&M Hero Points
including incorporating Healing Surges into Action Point uses
6. Alternative rules for milestones
7. Alternative rules for Daily Magic Items
8. Removing the +1/2 level to ability checks
9. HP loss penalties
10. Illusions that don't do damage
11. Alternative rules for Animal Companions
12. Alternative rules for Spirit Companions
13. Alternative rules for familiars
14. New Ritual rules
15. Magic Items that are not boring
16. An equipment book that is not lame as was AV.

Any and all of that would quickly see that book thrown from my table.
 


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