What would you like to see expanded/updated for Greyhawk?
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Theocrat
First Post
Are you guys missing the Living Greyhawk Gazetter?
Hi all-
All this talk about a hardback of the Greyhawk Adventures....
The GHA has: Gods, named Wizard Spells, Mysterious Places, a couple campaign / story arcs.
Now, here's the meat of it all....
You do know that Gary Holian (owner of CanonFire), Erik Mona (Dungeon editor, former editor of Oerth Journal), sean k reynolds (all un-capitilized names means disrespect [like you'll never catch me refering to the realms book frcs in caps]), & Fred Weining wrote the Living Greyhaw Gazetteer?
Gary Holian and Erik wrote most of the nation entries. If your real good you'll find the hidden gems. As an example, for the Pale (of course that's my personal region of expertise, hence Theocrat), St. Ceril is refered to. Well St. Ceril comes from iirc Dragon 82. Gary read the article, liked the concept and then used it and refered to in the LGG. Thus making the Dragon Mag and article canon.
Fred wrote much of the Bakluni / Suel background and regionals (iirc). I'm not 100% sure on that.
skr wrote the gods. He sucks. I don't like his politics, his writing style and or his imagination. Just don't. Even taking my personal dislike for him writting Greyhawk canon (I dislike his imagination, because he like Roger Moore and so many others doesn't/ didn't do enough research) I felt that the gods of Greyhawk should have had more and better information. Tal Meta, a long time fan and author of GH Stuff wrote some awesome god conversions. He plays Greyhawk using the RuneQuest ruleset. Interesting. So he converted all the gods and broke them down (Touv, Oerdian, Suel, Dwur, Olve, etc...) for RuneQuest. His ideas and concepts are so awesome that even if skr had checked them out his god section would be 10x's better.
The best thing about the LGG is that it is game generic. There are NO stats, not even for the gods. This is becasue the LGG was written while things were sill AD&D 2e, but with the 3e concepts in mind. So only the Domains are 3e.
Next, the LGG is all about the nations, and whats been going on since From the Ashes. It's CY 591. Roger Moore's Circle of Eight and Players Guide both (iirc) end in 591, so this just picks it up right there. And even though it says Living Greyhawk, in regards to the Living Greyhawk Campaign by the RPGA, it is not weighted down by that.
So, the LGG has more than what the GHA has. It has the gods (and more of them). More gods were described in one of the first couple LGJ's. The LGG has both mysterious places - tons of them with all the nations, and it also has a couple of organizations. So far, it's more than the GHA ever was. Ok, spells. Well, ok. It doesn't have any, becasue as I said - it's game generic. But as I mentioned, I did the PDF conversion of them and have them hosted [I'm the downloads editor] at CanonFire. So Download the 15 page (or so) Named Spell book from the GHA and now you have the GHA in 3.5 format.
Next, add to it by getting the Greyhawk Feats I & II that Erik Mona did. And while your checking out the 30 or so issues of the LGJ, you'll find tons of organizations, speciailized paladins of many of the gods, notes about the Valley Elves (by skr, and if he really knew GH, he'd call them OLVES), and so much more.
I'm only against WotC / RPGA doing stuff for Greyhawk. They're Fricking it up. With so many hands in the cookie jar of Living Greyhawk, there isn't a concise direction. And worse, is the lack of research. My research for my Weathering the Flanaess article and History of the Pale part 1 is massive, and is only for the Oerth Journal. If the RPGA authors and so forth kept the same standard (heck even if the authors did so) Greyhawk would not flounder.
So lets say that a company picked up Greyhawk. Necormancer and Green Ronin might be good, but they have their own designs. You'd need a company, a smaller company. Personally when my wife makes me rich, I'm going to buy it. But sure. I'd love to see a company made up of fans of the setting. Gary, Erik, and many others that are part of CanonFire. Sure we don't all agree - in fact I have some radical ideas, as do many others. But at least the setting could be straighten out. Erik tried that, and tries to make a cohesion out of a mess from the many authors that have written about the setting....a setting which was only centered around a city and came togeather only out of necesity, and not out of logical design.
Until a person/company takes over and puts knowledgable people in charge, Greyhawk will stagnate - offically. However, with the likes of Gary Holian [PSmedger}, ChatDemon, Grodog, Tizoc, Abyss, myself {Theocrat Issak}, and so many others, Greyhawk is in good hands. For as long as Erik can keep Greyhawk Material in either Dungeon or Dragon mag's, more people will be able to see the fruits of those labors.
But most of all.....take your ideas, take my ideas, and take someone elses idea. Write them down. Post them to CanonFire as an article. We're not that stringent. We don't even edit spelling mistakes most of the time! But you'll help keep the setting alive and tha'ts what CanonFire is about. Even if the ideas are WRONG and Disliked, it's your Greyhawk.
And that's why, it's CanonFire & GreyhawkOnline....Protect Your World!!!
Hi all-
All this talk about a hardback of the Greyhawk Adventures....
The GHA has: Gods, named Wizard Spells, Mysterious Places, a couple campaign / story arcs.
Now, here's the meat of it all....
You do know that Gary Holian (owner of CanonFire), Erik Mona (Dungeon editor, former editor of Oerth Journal), sean k reynolds (all un-capitilized names means disrespect [like you'll never catch me refering to the realms book frcs in caps]), & Fred Weining wrote the Living Greyhaw Gazetteer?
Gary Holian and Erik wrote most of the nation entries. If your real good you'll find the hidden gems. As an example, for the Pale (of course that's my personal region of expertise, hence Theocrat), St. Ceril is refered to. Well St. Ceril comes from iirc Dragon 82. Gary read the article, liked the concept and then used it and refered to in the LGG. Thus making the Dragon Mag and article canon.
Fred wrote much of the Bakluni / Suel background and regionals (iirc). I'm not 100% sure on that.
skr wrote the gods. He sucks. I don't like his politics, his writing style and or his imagination. Just don't. Even taking my personal dislike for him writting Greyhawk canon (I dislike his imagination, because he like Roger Moore and so many others doesn't/ didn't do enough research) I felt that the gods of Greyhawk should have had more and better information. Tal Meta, a long time fan and author of GH Stuff wrote some awesome god conversions. He plays Greyhawk using the RuneQuest ruleset. Interesting. So he converted all the gods and broke them down (Touv, Oerdian, Suel, Dwur, Olve, etc...) for RuneQuest. His ideas and concepts are so awesome that even if skr had checked them out his god section would be 10x's better.
The best thing about the LGG is that it is game generic. There are NO stats, not even for the gods. This is becasue the LGG was written while things were sill AD&D 2e, but with the 3e concepts in mind. So only the Domains are 3e.
Next, the LGG is all about the nations, and whats been going on since From the Ashes. It's CY 591. Roger Moore's Circle of Eight and Players Guide both (iirc) end in 591, so this just picks it up right there. And even though it says Living Greyhawk, in regards to the Living Greyhawk Campaign by the RPGA, it is not weighted down by that.
So, the LGG has more than what the GHA has. It has the gods (and more of them). More gods were described in one of the first couple LGJ's. The LGG has both mysterious places - tons of them with all the nations, and it also has a couple of organizations. So far, it's more than the GHA ever was. Ok, spells. Well, ok. It doesn't have any, becasue as I said - it's game generic. But as I mentioned, I did the PDF conversion of them and have them hosted [I'm the downloads editor] at CanonFire. So Download the 15 page (or so) Named Spell book from the GHA and now you have the GHA in 3.5 format.
Next, add to it by getting the Greyhawk Feats I & II that Erik Mona did. And while your checking out the 30 or so issues of the LGJ, you'll find tons of organizations, speciailized paladins of many of the gods, notes about the Valley Elves (by skr, and if he really knew GH, he'd call them OLVES), and so much more.
I'm only against WotC / RPGA doing stuff for Greyhawk. They're Fricking it up. With so many hands in the cookie jar of Living Greyhawk, there isn't a concise direction. And worse, is the lack of research. My research for my Weathering the Flanaess article and History of the Pale part 1 is massive, and is only for the Oerth Journal. If the RPGA authors and so forth kept the same standard (heck even if the authors did so) Greyhawk would not flounder.
So lets say that a company picked up Greyhawk. Necormancer and Green Ronin might be good, but they have their own designs. You'd need a company, a smaller company. Personally when my wife makes me rich, I'm going to buy it. But sure. I'd love to see a company made up of fans of the setting. Gary, Erik, and many others that are part of CanonFire. Sure we don't all agree - in fact I have some radical ideas, as do many others. But at least the setting could be straighten out. Erik tried that, and tries to make a cohesion out of a mess from the many authors that have written about the setting....a setting which was only centered around a city and came togeather only out of necesity, and not out of logical design.
Until a person/company takes over and puts knowledgable people in charge, Greyhawk will stagnate - offically. However, with the likes of Gary Holian [PSmedger}, ChatDemon, Grodog, Tizoc, Abyss, myself {Theocrat Issak}, and so many others, Greyhawk is in good hands. For as long as Erik can keep Greyhawk Material in either Dungeon or Dragon mag's, more people will be able to see the fruits of those labors.
But most of all.....take your ideas, take my ideas, and take someone elses idea. Write them down. Post them to CanonFire as an article. We're not that stringent. We don't even edit spelling mistakes most of the time! But you'll help keep the setting alive and tha'ts what CanonFire is about. Even if the ideas are WRONG and Disliked, it's your Greyhawk.
And that's why, it's CanonFire & GreyhawkOnline....Protect Your World!!!
Theocrat
First Post
Want a Campaign Series Module
Hi all-
Well the A series - the Slavers is a set of 4 modules.
But it is actually started by G1, Against the Giants. First you're in Sterich and fight the giants, then you go through D1-3, and then Q and the demon web pits and then the Slavers. Of course, that's supposed to have killed off PC's through some of that and be a new campaign.
Some one else mentioned that they'd like like to see all the old modulle brought to 3.5, well a few people on EN World are doing just that.
And it's not that hard to convert it over to 3.5, just use whatever monster is listed, figure out the NPC's is a litttle bit more of a judgement call, but should still be easy enough.
And lastly, you can get the modules from the RPGA. They've got over 500. It's not that easiy to get all of them, but it can be done.
Someone mentioned Dyvers - well there is a Dyvers Regional Pack that breaks the city down, as well as several modules in the region.
There really is so much out there for Greyhawk that you just have to know where to look to find it and what you are willing to do to get it.
Hi all-
Well the A series - the Slavers is a set of 4 modules.
But it is actually started by G1, Against the Giants. First you're in Sterich and fight the giants, then you go through D1-3, and then Q and the demon web pits and then the Slavers. Of course, that's supposed to have killed off PC's through some of that and be a new campaign.
Some one else mentioned that they'd like like to see all the old modulle brought to 3.5, well a few people on EN World are doing just that.
And it's not that hard to convert it over to 3.5, just use whatever monster is listed, figure out the NPC's is a litttle bit more of a judgement call, but should still be easy enough.
And lastly, you can get the modules from the RPGA. They've got over 500. It's not that easiy to get all of them, but it can be done.
Someone mentioned Dyvers - well there is a Dyvers Regional Pack that breaks the city down, as well as several modules in the region.
There really is so much out there for Greyhawk that you just have to know where to look to find it and what you are willing to do to get it.
MaxKaladin
First Post
steelgrave said:
You know, I think Greyhawk fans are the setting's own worst enemies. I have a certain fondness for Greyhawk. I did some of my earlier adolescent adventuring there and have some fond memories. I spent more than a decade running campaigns in the Forgotten Realms and Harn. When I looked into using Greyhawk again for a new campaign I was planning, I started encountering fans like this. I ran into Greyhawk fans who couldn't stop themselves from sneering anytime I mentioned one of my previous Forgotten Realms campaigns. I joined a couple of mailing lists and couldn't seem to go a dozen posts without running into the sort of thing I quote above, especially on the GreyTalk list someone mentioned. I did this twice, by the way. Once was in the late 90s (~98) and once in 2000 and 2001 when I was putting together a 3rd edition campaign. Both times, I decided I didn't want to deal with it on a continual basis and ended up homebrewing.Theocrat said:
Now, I'm not posting this to bash Greyhawk fans. Rather, I'd like to ask people to stop and consider what sort of image for Greyhawk comments like those present to the gaming community at large. I'd submit that it isn't a good one and it might be costing Greyhawk new fans and support.
Theocrat
First Post
Greyhawk Fans
Hi all -
It really isn't fair for a fan of any region/setting to come in and say that because someone doesn't like an author, and states as much, that they then feel that they can't like the setting at all. That's a lame excuse to not play in a setting. Every game system, setting and such has both its supporters and its detractors. This is just one example.
My dislike for sean k reynolds is due to his lack of research in his writting materials should not be taken as a fan saying that his stuff isn't accepted at all. He wrote it, it's now canon because he wrote it. And because of TSR / WotC policy that the latest item is the correct one, just further validates the actual writings and allowes the past to be ignored.
Yes, Greyhawk fans are the hardest, becasue time after time, they've been given the shaft in terms of writters. skr was TSR's web master, who applied for a writers position and it was granted. What seems to be the problem is that new writers for TSR often are given Greyhawk, although they have no real love or knowledge of the setting.
The two exclusions to this are both Erik Mona and Gary Holian. Erik and Gary, with others started the Oerth Journal (I think it was Steve Wilson that actually started OJ). Erik was one of the first and major editors. Gary, Erik and Steve formed a Greyhawk "council" if you will and did some official work for TSR/WotC. It was from this, with Lisa Stevens that Greyhawk got re-started. From this, and with Erik's background he got in at the base and has worked his way up the latter.
How this is important to how you view Greyhawk material is what is important. skr, wrote things for Greyhawk, yet did not do enough research to find out what things were done previously - wether that information that was previously done was good or not. To counter this, I mentioned how Gary did do his research and used old Dragon Magazines to help with making Greyhawk firm.
I too use home brew material, but for it I do research to make sure that I'm not making something that contradicts a previous source. As such, I'm giving information about the LGG, and how as I see it - at least - that he didn't do as good a job as I believe that he should have or that another person could have. As such, I'm also explaining as to why I do not capitilize a person's name - because of lack of support due to their writtings. I'm sure someone will or would do that same with mine. Great.
So at that, read the information for yourself, talk to others and determine if an author is up to the par that you expect. As it is, it appears that most WotC authors are not up to the expectations - if they were, there would not be the massive amounts of posting and message boards regarding potential errata or the differences in errata and the sage (the latest MM errata is a clear example of this).
Here's to keeping the world safe....
CanonFire and GreyhawkOnline.....Protect Your World
Hi all -
It really isn't fair for a fan of any region/setting to come in and say that because someone doesn't like an author, and states as much, that they then feel that they can't like the setting at all. That's a lame excuse to not play in a setting. Every game system, setting and such has both its supporters and its detractors. This is just one example.
My dislike for sean k reynolds is due to his lack of research in his writting materials should not be taken as a fan saying that his stuff isn't accepted at all. He wrote it, it's now canon because he wrote it. And because of TSR / WotC policy that the latest item is the correct one, just further validates the actual writings and allowes the past to be ignored.
Yes, Greyhawk fans are the hardest, becasue time after time, they've been given the shaft in terms of writters. skr was TSR's web master, who applied for a writers position and it was granted. What seems to be the problem is that new writers for TSR often are given Greyhawk, although they have no real love or knowledge of the setting.
The two exclusions to this are both Erik Mona and Gary Holian. Erik and Gary, with others started the Oerth Journal (I think it was Steve Wilson that actually started OJ). Erik was one of the first and major editors. Gary, Erik and Steve formed a Greyhawk "council" if you will and did some official work for TSR/WotC. It was from this, with Lisa Stevens that Greyhawk got re-started. From this, and with Erik's background he got in at the base and has worked his way up the latter.
How this is important to how you view Greyhawk material is what is important. skr, wrote things for Greyhawk, yet did not do enough research to find out what things were done previously - wether that information that was previously done was good or not. To counter this, I mentioned how Gary did do his research and used old Dragon Magazines to help with making Greyhawk firm.
I too use home brew material, but for it I do research to make sure that I'm not making something that contradicts a previous source. As such, I'm giving information about the LGG, and how as I see it - at least - that he didn't do as good a job as I believe that he should have or that another person could have. As such, I'm also explaining as to why I do not capitilize a person's name - because of lack of support due to their writtings. I'm sure someone will or would do that same with mine. Great.
So at that, read the information for yourself, talk to others and determine if an author is up to the par that you expect. As it is, it appears that most WotC authors are not up to the expectations - if they were, there would not be the massive amounts of posting and message boards regarding potential errata or the differences in errata and the sage (the latest MM errata is a clear example of this).
Here's to keeping the world safe....
CanonFire and GreyhawkOnline.....Protect Your World
Rl'Halsinor said:
RTOEE definately has some legs on monte's boards!
As for computer TOEE, Ive heard a lot of horror stories, but I installed the game with the patches on my new computer and ran it through without much trouble at all, except for a lot of stalling in the fire nodes (graphic intensity?)
MaxKaladin said:
I agree with this gentleman a bit. One the one hand, Ive been playing in Greyhawk since the 1983 boxed set and darlene maps so I have a lot of history (course grodog is THE oracle). On the other, hearing that previous gentleman talk about how much he disrespects sean reynolds is silly (rose estes ok I'll give you that). For example, if you read return to the tomb of horrors, gary gygax wrote the intro and said how much he liked the setting! The original master of greyhawk loves sean's work or at least that piece. Didnt he do Slavers or was that someone else? That was also a good piece of work by someone who knew the settiing but wanted to build on it. Lets not let us old grognards get so uppity that we bash everyone. Are you really more greyhawk (despite your "research" than gary gygax). I DO agree that some of the Living Greyhawk stuff is quite sloppy and yes I do have copy of the Dragon with St. Ceril the Relentless and I appreciated the canon reference.
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