D&D 5E () What would you want for 5e Birthright?

[CapnZapp]

This is whhy I disagree with @Laurefindel 's proposal to keep it as European as possible.

I think a game set in a vaguely Witcherversy setting would be fine, and it should be "as European as possible".

Not every game should contain every option.

The question should instead be: should THIS game be that game?

And here I agree with you. Since Birthright is a D&D game, a WotC game, a Hasbro game, it makes sense for it to be an everything including the kitchen sink setting.

So I would expect it to be reimagined to include MORE real-life cultural "inspirations", not less.

The old Cerilia was pretty much following the Mediterranean-centric (is that even a word?) approach, with Vikings and Old Araby as thhe furthest extents of what's considered "exotic".

This would very likely be extended to cover the entire Earth in a new edition.

As I said, the actual specifics of the Cerilia map was always the weak generic part of the Birthright concept. Nothing is gained by clinging to the old map.

It is the IDEAS of bloodlines, awnshegn, and domain overlay that makes Birthright valuable.

Now that I think of it, maybe Birthright would work best as an optional plug-in for each of Hasbro's existing D&D campaign world...

And not be its own thing at all, I mean.

 

[TheSword]

The problem is if those old rules just doesn't work.

Without heavy DM intervention, I mean.

What I want is for a domain layer as balanced as if it was a stand-alone board game. No handwavium should be needed. Because it basically IS a stand-alone board game.

If the heroes are given a big strong nation to begin with, getting the economy up and running should be relatively easy. If they get a small poor nation, it should be very hard.

It should not be that regardless of the actual state of your nation, the same set of heroics and adventures lead to the same success end state. In that case, the various domain statistics is just a smoke screen, and the game should simply say that outright, and drop the pretense, and not give numeric data.

Either the numbers mean something or they don't.

I get where you’re coming from. The only problem is that a board game balanced with equal chances of winning and losing isn’t typically the odds we offer to PCs. They don’t typically have an 50-50 chance of success. Particularly when the PCs actions outside the domain rules should impact the success of their kingdom and therefore skew the domain level rules. Secondly it is really unwieldy to try and model the actions and resources of three or four dozen regents so a DM adjudicated approach seems more sensible.

Is there anything in particular from the 2nd Ed domain rules that you think is particularly boinked?

 

[deganawida]

Now that I think of it, maybe Birthright would work best as an optional plug-in for each of Hasbro's existing D&D campaign world...

And not be its own thing at all, I mean.

I was contemplating last night, as I struggled to sleep (yay for getting older and for old injuries), a merger of Nentir Vale and Cerilia, so you're not alone in wondering that.

Taking this a little further, and given the thoughts I had last night, should Birthright be split into two parts?

While I confess that the domain rules were the hook that got me to buy the campaign setting when it was released all those years ago, they weren't what made me love the setting. Instead, it was the way the setting captured the older myths of humans driving out the fairy creatures as they made their kingdoms and cities, unique monsters and their weirdness, goblins that weren't a joke enemy, vast dark forests, and things inspired by other folklore (as mentioned earlier in the thread). These things gave me a world already created that met my desire for medieval fantasy. As also mentioned earlier in the thread, the Witcher universe captures a lot of that feel, as well, and is fairly popular (if nothing else, I don't remember Old Spice making a deodorant based off of Old Toby or something, like they've done with their Lilac & Gooseberries deodorant).

To continue my question from above, I am now thinking that I'd like to see the Birthright Campaign Setting 5e (if it ever comes about) just describe the world and the class restrictions (or even just recommendations, though I prefer the restrictions), and have the domain rules be an entirely separate resource book that can be applied to any setting.

 

[Laurefindel]

To continue my question from above, I am now thinking that I'd like to see the Birthright Campaign Setting 5e (if it ever comes about) just describe the world and the class restrictions (or even just recommendations, though I prefer the restrictions), and have the domain rules be an entirely separate resource book that can be applied to any setting.

Bah, you know how it is...

Domain rules will start by being printed in a Birthright setting book with direct ties with Cerilia, then reprinted in Elminster's Boots of Everything (or something like that) stripped of their Birthright-ness for a more universal, portable, and general use

 

[CapnZapp]

My point is that I see next to zero potential in Cerilia, whether commercial, inspiration-wise or other.

I do see potential in the triple ideas of bloodlines, awnsheg and domains.

That's why I envision a "Birthright" layer as (much) more realistic.

And yes, that would be on top of Forgotten Realms. (There's no point in mentioning other campaign worlds, since it has been clear for years that WotC is not interested in splitting the customer base by supporting multiple campaign worlds)

 

[John R Davis]

Strongholds and Followers, Kingdoms and Warfare.... except not quite as complicated, and more integrated with play. Meaning, the PCs can actually be in the fight, much like how Dimension 20 did it in their Crown of Candy stream.

Absolutely. PC front and centre in battles, in some of my publications I created mass battle system as all the big name ones do the opposite, which is very poor design.
Played the PC birthright game an awful lot
A table top reboot would be cool

 

[Tallifer]

Set it in Eberron.

 

[deganawida]

My point is that I see next to zero potential in Cerilia, whether commercial, inspiration-wise or other.

I do see potential in the triple ideas of bloodlines, awnsheg and domains.

That's why I envision a "Birthright" layer as (much) more realistic.

And yes, that would be on top of Forgotten Realms. (There's no point in mentioning other campaign worlds, since it has been clear for years that WotC is not interested in splitting the customer base by supporting multiple campaign worlds)

Perhaps, but, like Tonguez said upthread, I'd really like to see a campaign setting that is a more subdued European fantasy, which more traditional/mythical/folkloric representation of races/lineages/heritages/peoples. Whether or not Birthright is that setting, I'd still like to see it. Dolmenwood looks like it will scratch part of that itch, but not the full thing.

 

[Laurefindel]

Perhaps, but, like Tonguez said upthread, I'd really like to see a campaign setting that is a more subdued European fantasy, which more traditional/mythical/folkloric representation of races/lineages/heritages/peoples. Whether or not Birthright is that setting, I'd still like to see it. Dolmenwood looks like it will scratch part of that itch, but not the full thing.

Same here. I feel that, among other things, the concept and in-world implications of awnshegh would be far too diluted in a world where magic and the extra planar/meta-humans are as commonplace as in Forgotten Realms or Eberron.

 

[HammerMan]

What I want is for a domain layer as balanced as if it was a stand-alone board game. No handwavium should be needed. Because it basically IS a stand-alone board game.

intresting you bring up board games.. I had forgotten this until you said that.

back in 4e one of my players pitched useing a mix of risk and the conquest of Nuereth (that was kinda risk) to make a system where you could 'peel out of daily hero work' and 'bigger picture' stuff.

a way of mixing the two. His pitch was really cool I wonder if I still have the emails... it was something like "We all make 3 characters, a combat/RPG hero, a lord/noble, and a guild represented from a country... we RP the last two as movers and shakers with the main king/parliament being your NPCs, and and then we send ourselves on missions."