Planescape (+) What would you want for 5e Planescape?

[Sithlord]

Take, enjoy!

Actually, now that I think about it: while the faction war may not have been a great idea, maybe the factions do need to be shaken up a bit--maybe new factions should be made. PS always had sects, but those were limited to a plane or even a layer. Maybe some of those sects should grow up a bit.

The problem with updating a settings timeline is that the adventure Faction War did not happen the way the new updated timeline says it does. So my setting is quite different. In fact my modron March adventure had repercussions vastly different that will not sit into future publications. That’s why i primarily think that updating setting timelines is a mistake. I can’t imagine how those very open ended adventures with vast vast possibilities played out at other tables. So many different directions they took at many different tables. And then the updated
Timeline for new products tells you how it ended for every table everywhere.

 

[Faolyn]

But I think the vibe of magic 19th century London/Paris is perfect, and gives me a lot of touchstones in terms of weird victoriana.

OK, another possible new sect, based on Theosophy: search for the Precursor races, ancient knowledge and technology, summoning spirits (or communicating with petitioners), and altering reality through meditation. Things like that. Created by members of the Athar, Dustmen, the Sign of One, and the Society of Sensation.

 

[humble minion]

One of my problems is that it never went full 19th century despite actually using 19th century English slang. There was that one guy who had arquebuses but that's 15th century technology. Printing presses (9th century tech, but 15th century in Europe) and factories certainly exist in Sigil.

I think Sigil should get a rail system at least, since Eberron and Ravnica have trains. Probably could do with other technology from the 19th century like photography and gramophones and other things too.

Ravenloft did the same thing. Printing, firearms, clockwork, monocles, a very 19th-century aesthetic when it comes to clothing and social structures etc etc etc - but basically none of it was ever meaningfully addressed in the rules. hell, Strahd continually wore opera cloaks but there's never been an opera house in Barovia, and the nearest one is two domains away. Style trumped coherent setting design, always. The setting didn't even bother thinking about where all this stuff been made, much less invented (at least in Planescape you've got the entire infinite Great Wheel and all the Prime planes to trade with for all the cool goodies...).

 

[TarionzCousin]

I have all the lore I need.

I want a hardcover adventure with some new, player-facing stuff: backgrounds, faction info. I wouldn't even mind if the adventure required travel on a planejammer ship.

 

[Bacon Bits]

I think I explained my problem with the original Planescape well here:

Planescape - Planescape to languish in purgatory?

I'm not sure what you would want from a 5e planescape. You've got almost everything you need mechanically and the 2e setting material is easily available. Except for the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix I, II and III, none of which are available on DMs Guild, for reasons that I can only...

www.enworld.org

In short:

1. The factions are based on philosophy or ideology, but they don't have goals.

2. There are both too many similar factions, and the only factions people are familiar with are the original set so the later stuff will probably just alienate people.

3. Portals kind of suck because the players just feel railroaded. I called it "the World Serpent Inn expanded to a city" and if you've run or played any module featuring that you'll understand why that's railroadey.

4. The Lady of Pain is not a good character for a campaign. She has no goals (that you know of) and can't meaningfully be interacted with. She's there as a contrived cosmic cop, but otherwise it'd be better if she weren't there.

Overall the original setting felt like a static design as fixed as the Great Wheel, not a functioning world. I know the Faction War tried to change that... but of all the Planescape fans I know, none of them care about that.

That means I want:

1. Factions need distinct goals, not just philosophical perspectives.

2. Only Factions from the original set. No new ones. If you need to destroy or merge a few, okay, but keep it as original as you can.

3. Make portals work more like ports instead of having endless portals in the city. Fixed, known, and able to be taken back. Honestly, I kinda like the idea of using spelljamming ships to cross the Astral Sea to the outer planes, and I say that as someone who doesn't really like Spelljammer.

4. Do something else with the Lady of Pain. She's iconic, boring, and difficult to use. That's criminal.

5. We need descriptions of all the planes including adventuring hazzards and features, and the gate towns on each plane need descriptions. Yes that's obnoxious, but it's what you signed up for.

6. Most of the planar races have been covered, but I'd like to be able to play as an Abishai.

7. As a DM, I want a discussion about HOW to use the outer planes. I want ideas for using ideas, morals, ethics, and ideals as CHARACTERS in my adventure. The outer planes are all about the esoteric and surreal made manifest. Tell me about what that means and how I might take advantage of that.

Basically, I don't want Sigil to feel like a holodeck episode of Star Trek, but I want to be able to run adventures on planes that do feel like that.

 

[Sithlord]

I think I explained my problem with the original Planescape well here:

Planescape - Planescape to languish in purgatory?

I'm not sure what you would want from a 5e planescape. You've got almost everything you need mechanically and the 2e setting material is easily available. Except for the Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix I, II and III, none of which are available on DMs Guild, for reasons that I can only...

www.enworld.org

In short:

1. The factions are based on philosophy or ideology, but they don't have goals.

2. There are both too many similar factions, and the only factions people are familiar with are the original set so the later stuff will probably just alienate people.

3. Portals kind of suck because the players just feel railroaded. I called it "the World Serpent Inn expanded to a city" and if you've run or played any module featuring that you'll understand why that's railroadey.

4. The Lady of Pain is not a good character for a campaign. She has no goals (that you know of) and can't meaningfully be interacted with. She's there as a contrived cosmic cop, but otherwise it'd be better if she weren't there.

Overall the original setting felt like a static design as fixed as the Great Wheel, not a functioning world. I know the Faction War tried to change that... but of all the Planescape fans I know, none of them care about that.

That means I want:

1. Factions need distinct goals, not just philosophical perspectives.

2. Only Factions from the original set. No new ones. If you need to destroy or merge a few, okay, but keep it as original as you can.

3. Make portals work more like ports instead of having endless portals in the city. Fixed, known, and able to be taken back. Honestly, I kinda like the idea of using spelljamming ships to cross the Astral Sea to the outer planes, and I say that as someone who doesn't really like Spelljammer.

4. Do something else with the Lady of Pain. She's iconic, boring, and difficult to use. That's criminal.

5. We need descriptions of all the planes including adventuring hazzards and features, and the gate towns on each plane need descriptions. Yes that's obnoxious, but it's what you signed up for.

6. Most of the planar races have been covered, but I'd like to be able to play as an Abishai.

7. As a DM, I want a discussion about HOW to use the outer planes. I want ideas for using ideas, morals, ethics, and ideals as CHARACTERS in my adventure. The outer planes are all about the esoteric and surreal made manifest. Tell me about what that means and how I might take advantage of that.

Basically, I don't want Sigil to feel like a holodeck episode of Star Trek, but I want to be able to run adventures on planes that do feel like that.

Everything u like about that setting I love. And most u like I despise. That’s not a criticism. That’s just to show how hard it is to make a product with broad appeal. And probably why settings should be somewhat open ended with tools on how to make them your own

 

[Bacon Bits]

Everything u like about that setting I love. And most u like I despise. That’s not a criticism. That’s just to show how hard it is to make a product with broad appeal. And probably why settings should be somewhat open ended with tools on how to make them your own

Oh, no, I liked those things about it when I read them. Lore-wise I like it. I just found it impossible to actually run a functional campaign that used any of it. It felt like the setting was a museum display rather than a tool to structure adventures with.

 

[Sithlord]

Oh, no, I liked those things about it when I read them. Lore-wise I like it. I just found it impossible to actually run a functional campaign that used any of it. It felt like the setting was a museum display rather than a tool to structure adventures with.

I can understand. I been running planescape setting for amost 30 years. I love it. It has also evolved a lot from the source material. And I think any long term campaign will do that. And should do that. I love my random portals too. Big part of my adventures is finding them and/or the key.

 

[Faolyn]

1. The factions are based on philosophy or ideology, but they don't have goals.

That's true, but I think that can be addressed. Off the top of my head:

Society of Sensation
Belief: To truly understand the universe, you must experience it
PC Goal: Find new things and document them for use in a Sensorium. Prevent people from destroying unique things.

This isn't written out like that in the books; it's more implied. Considering the way the 5e books have been written, I expect that each faction would have a bit like this, possibly along with recommended races or classes (like they did in Ravnica).

2. There are both too many similar factions, and the only factions people are familiar with are the original set so the later stuff will probably just alienate people.

Probably, although I think that they could have lots of minor sects.

3. Portals kind of suck because the players just feel railroaded. I called it "the World Serpent Inn expanded to a city" and if you've run or played any module featuring that you'll understand why that's railroadey.

Do they? I mean, if the players know they want to go to a particular location, then they'd look for a portal that goes there. Otherwise, portals require keys or only open at certain times so yes, a railroad-y DM could decide that the door the PC just walked through is actually a portal that opened right then and there (or could refuse to open a portal because they want the PCs to remain where they are). But the DM can also decide that portals are obvious, don't work unless you choose to walk through, or simply won't open at that point.

Now, I have not read any Planescape adventures, so I have no idea how they're used in them. But as-is, portals aren't inherently railroad-y.

4. The Lady of Pain is not a good character for a campaign. She has no goals (that you know of) and can't meaningfully be interacted with. She's there as a contrived cosmic cop, but otherwise it'd be better if she weren't there.

She's a plot device, the reason that nobody else (like a god) has taken over the city. I'm not sure she needs to be interacted with.

Overall the original setting felt like a static design as fixed as the Great Wheel, not a functioning world. I know the Faction War tried to change that... but of all the Planescape fans I know, none of them care about that.

I feel the problem is less the setting and more a lack of desire by TSR to make abrupt too many changes, any more than they already had (by sucking a layer of Arcadia away). It's the whole "status quo is god" thing.

I think the most logical thing to do would be for them to (perhaps using a table) suggest some multiverse-shaking events. If the DM feels like it, they can roll on the chart: a layer or part of a layer got sucked into another plane for no apparent reason; a Power, arch-fiend, or other extremely powerful thing got imprisoned, put in a coma, died, or radically changed in some way (Orcus suddenly became a solar); a new faction just appeared in Sigil. Stuff like that.

3. Make portals work more like ports instead of having endless portals in the city. Fixed, known, and able to be taken back. Honestly, I kinda like the idea of using spelljamming ships to cross the Astral Sea to the outer planes, and I say that as someone who doesn't really like Spelljammer.

The problems with this, I feel, are as follows:

In the Astral, there's no time. You don't age or need to eat, breathe, or drink. This completely negates part of what makes travel interesting. Plus, once you leave the Astral, that all catches up with you. Which kind of sucks.

In Spelljammer, part of the point of the game was the journey. Being in space and dealing with space weirdness, before you got to a (relatively normal) planet. But in Planescape, the destinations are the weird part; you really don't need to have weird travel as well.

6. Most of the planar races have been covered, but I'd like to be able to play as an Abishai.

Those guys are hella powerful in 5e. You'd be better off playing as a dragonborn warlock.

 

[Shardstone]

Now, for all my complaints, I will say one thing.

I could make a fantastic Planescape book. I've toyed with the idea for a long time. There is some real promise in making a robust series of mechanics, a lot of spells, and some sub-class options for characters that focus on "ideas are swords, beliefs are shields." Theros and Ravnica, via the DMG rules, started it, with Piety and Renown respectively. Crank those up to ten, bake them into 2 or so subclasses for each class, and then give us feats, spells, and other fan ways we can actually act on that.

Then equip the DM with some sick tools, like a Chaos-Thought Index that changes core aspects of sigil or gatetowns or wherever else you are in the planes. Give me the mechanics I need to say "Ok, the party have convinced an entire neighborhood to praise Arborea, how does that change the reality of that neighborhood." Let me have tools so that way the never-ending battle between ideas in the minds of mortal creatures as influenced by immortal creatures can have actionable, fun, heroic moments. Then Planescape would be heads and shoulders over any other official D&D setting imo.