Chase rules - How sailing ships can "steal" the wind, when it becomes effective. How the chasing ship has to respond to to the movements of the lead ship to keep it working.
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What would you want in a book of naval rules?
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FreeXenon
American Male (he/him); INTP ADHD Introverted Geek
....how skills interact or allow the PC's to take control or affect a ship's operation. a new skill just for navigation, etc ... or just use Nature? A Naval feat which unlocks Naval uses for skills.... themes which give bonuses to certain Naval actions...?
There should be some way for characters to run their own ship or take specific positions if need be. There is a certain satisfaction to personally out maneuvering one of the King's or pirates fastest ships. Allow PC's to significantly affect or be a part of the ships operation is good.
There should be some way for characters to run their own ship or take specific positions if need be. There is a certain satisfaction to personally out maneuvering one of the King's or pirates fastest ships. Allow PC's to significantly affect or be a part of the ships operation is good.
RoboCheney
First Post
I'd like to see some nautical skill challenges. Maybe one for sailing / navigation, weathering a storm, or keeping a crippled ship afloat. I could see one player at the bilge pump, another putting out a fire, a third pulling a crew member that fell overboard.
Different positions PCs could hold on a ship (captain, quartermaster, navigation, etc) and how that plays into the above.
One situation that comes up often is when a ship boards another and you have a mass combat between the crews. Making them minions can make this situation easier to manage, but with 1 hp you also don't want half the crewmembers dying off in the first round. At the other end, there should be more structure to boarding combat than DM handwaving. I don't have a good answer, but its something to think about. (Maybe a mass combat could be a type of difficult terrain or hazard, and PCs win by beating the ship's leadership.)
Rules for building and outfitting your own ships would be nice, but maybe beyond the scope of the book. Only the hardcore naval campaigns would need this.
An appendix with advice for modifying all the rules for airships, planar ships in the Astral sea, and whatnot, for the fantastic and high-level adventures.
Different positions PCs could hold on a ship (captain, quartermaster, navigation, etc) and how that plays into the above.
One situation that comes up often is when a ship boards another and you have a mass combat between the crews. Making them minions can make this situation easier to manage, but with 1 hp you also don't want half the crewmembers dying off in the first round. At the other end, there should be more structure to boarding combat than DM handwaving. I don't have a good answer, but its something to think about. (Maybe a mass combat could be a type of difficult terrain or hazard, and PCs win by beating the ship's leadership.)
Rules for building and outfitting your own ships would be nice, but maybe beyond the scope of the book. Only the hardcore naval campaigns would need this.
An appendix with advice for modifying all the rules for airships, planar ships in the Astral sea, and whatnot, for the fantastic and high-level adventures.
RoboCheney
First Post
Also, some example naval encounters would be nice. Like some writeups for goblin raiders on catamarans, hobgoblin slave longboats, or organic submersibles powered by mind flayers.
Last Thing: Fantasy Flight's Seafarer's Handbook has a lot of food for thought, particularly in the ship designs.
Last Thing: Fantasy Flight's Seafarer's Handbook has a lot of food for thought, particularly in the ship designs.
Oryan77
Adventurer
I'd like rules on how to deal with a woman on board so she won't cause the crew to have bad luck. Can there be a feat for this or would she need to dip into a prestige class?
What about a chart that lists various ways to punish a stowaway?
An equipment list for pirate gear would be nice. I don't know how much an eyepatch, pegleg, hook, or a parrot would cost. Can a hook be masterwork or maybe even mithral? I might know if it was in this book.
What about a chart that lists various ways to punish a stowaway?
An equipment list for pirate gear would be nice. I don't know how much an eyepatch, pegleg, hook, or a parrot would cost. Can a hook be masterwork or maybe even mithral? I might know if it was in this book.
Celebrim
Legend
My game branched from 3.0, and took the old 'Intuit Direction' skill and generalized it to 'Navigation'. I had long argued for 'Using a Boat' as proof that the 'Profession' skills covered some areas not covered by the other skills. Then as I was clarifying my house rules, I realized that 'Using a Boat' was just about the only skill not covered by the other skills, and so simply created a 'Boating' skill (which needs a better name I admit) but which covers handling any sort of water craft and dropped the Profession skill.
So I'm a strong advocate of needing specific skills for specific jobs. It seems really strange to me to have taking the helm of a 30 gun man-of-war and guiding it into harbor be a generic 'Nature' skill check.
My homebrew 'Explorer' class is based off the idea of the old Dragon 'Mariner' class, generalized so as to not be specific to the terrain. You could get by with assuming that all Pirates/Sailors/Marines were some combination of rogue, fighter, and expert but I personally find that my Explorer class is more generic and provides better for 1st level 'sailors'. So, I think there is room for a base class in the rules, though of course, for 4e a base class is an unfortunately overly elaborate thing. You'd have to leave to the 4e gurus how to capture the idea in 4e well, because 'I'm a sailor' hardly seems an Epic Destiny or Paragon Path.... Feared on the Seven Seas maybe.
Absolutely. I would assume that the abstract chase system/combat system/navigation/hazards system would have some sort of 'skill challenge' like system based on crewing various stations about the ship. So for example, 'lose 'em in the fog' or 'lose 'em in the night' would challenge the lookout's spot or search skill and if their was a failure, then you'd fall back so many range increments in the chase and perhaps lose the ship all together.
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Crime and punishment and the damage done from it - Keel hauling: pulling a crew member from one side of the ship to the other under the hull!
RoboCheney
First Post
I made a broad Seafaring skill for my homebrew pirates game. It covers helming a ship, signaling messages, navigation, rope use, and some other odds and ends (like playing Devil's Dice and speaking in grizzled sailor jargon). I replaced Dungeoneering for the setting, since the latter skill would see little if any use.
Crazy Jerome
First Post
Satisfy TheAuldGrump and SiderisAnon, and you are 90% there for me too.
About the only thing I would add to their lists (which is implied by their lists), is that there be a few meaningful decision points for the PCs. And by that, I don't mean, "beat some DC on a chart that only vaguely corresponds to reality."
It can be as abstract as you want, but it should be easy to set up situations where trying to board versus stand off, or run versus engage, or make for open water or skirt the reef--are difficult decisions.
About the only thing I would add to their lists (which is implied by their lists), is that there be a few meaningful decision points for the PCs. And by that, I don't mean, "beat some DC on a chart that only vaguely corresponds to reality."
It can be as abstract as you want, but it should be easy to set up situations where trying to board versus stand off, or run versus engage, or make for open water or skirt the reef--are difficult decisions.I ran a 3e naval campaign, and here's the kind of things I researched the stuffing out of:
Watch Master & Commander. That totally shifted my view of naval operations and revealed how books like the seafarer's handbook were "off"
proper formulas for ship building. I researched a metric ton of real ship stats and came up with a formulas for how many masts, width, # of decks, draft based on the length of the ship.
They weren't complicated, but there is a general pattern in ship designs once you study actual ship dimensions. I could probably dredge up my spreadsheet that had the historical stats so I could discern a patter, and my simple ship stats spreadsheet.
Properly account for cannons, balista and catapults on a ship. Too many D&D sailing ships put 2 balista on the deck and call that a warship. Once the technology involves more modern (1700's) sailing ships, they were bigger and you could pack on the guns.
Rules for a party of PCs to contribute to the sailing and combat of a vessel. Basically, stuff to do when they aren't in hand-to-hand combat.
rules for calculating travel time to far away places (including adjustment for weather along the way)
sea monster attacks and resolution of ship to monster to character combat
ramming, broadsides, chasing, boarding rules
Marines!
Ship board life fluff and positions on a ship (that PCs might fill)
random encounters (monsters, other ships, weather, reefs, lost islands, fish schools, big fish (dolphins, whales), etc)
guidance for PC command hierarchy and inter-player behavior so the "Captain" isn't a jerk to his friends
Curses, superstitions, bad omens implemented as ACTUAL mechanics
Albatross!
Ship construction costs (so the PCs could run a ship construction yard or business)
Shipping and freight investment system (so the PCs can run or invest in the East India Trading company, etc)
Communication for ship to ship and for transport of messages from one land to another. One of the themes in my naval campaign was that humanity's ability to settle and colonize is limited to the acceptable delay time to communicate with others, so as to call for help or reinforce or resupply. I used magic to solve that problem (MEssage spell, etc). Without it, civilization won't spread farther than a few months distance for communication.
Just a few of the things I dealt with, and mostly had to invent because I didn't find a suitable nautical campaign source for D&D in the 3e era.
Oh yeah, support 3e!
Watch Master & Commander. That totally shifted my view of naval operations and revealed how books like the seafarer's handbook were "off"
proper formulas for ship building. I researched a metric ton of real ship stats and came up with a formulas for how many masts, width, # of decks, draft based on the length of the ship.
They weren't complicated, but there is a general pattern in ship designs once you study actual ship dimensions. I could probably dredge up my spreadsheet that had the historical stats so I could discern a patter, and my simple ship stats spreadsheet.
Properly account for cannons, balista and catapults on a ship. Too many D&D sailing ships put 2 balista on the deck and call that a warship. Once the technology involves more modern (1700's) sailing ships, they were bigger and you could pack on the guns.
Rules for a party of PCs to contribute to the sailing and combat of a vessel. Basically, stuff to do when they aren't in hand-to-hand combat.
rules for calculating travel time to far away places (including adjustment for weather along the way)
sea monster attacks and resolution of ship to monster to character combat
ramming, broadsides, chasing, boarding rules
Marines!
Ship board life fluff and positions on a ship (that PCs might fill)
random encounters (monsters, other ships, weather, reefs, lost islands, fish schools, big fish (dolphins, whales), etc)
guidance for PC command hierarchy and inter-player behavior so the "Captain" isn't a jerk to his friends
Curses, superstitions, bad omens implemented as ACTUAL mechanics
Albatross!
Ship construction costs (so the PCs could run a ship construction yard or business)
Shipping and freight investment system (so the PCs can run or invest in the East India Trading company, etc)
Communication for ship to ship and for transport of messages from one land to another. One of the themes in my naval campaign was that humanity's ability to settle and colonize is limited to the acceptable delay time to communicate with others, so as to call for help or reinforce or resupply. I used magic to solve that problem (MEssage spell, etc). Without it, civilization won't spread farther than a few months distance for communication.
Just a few of the things I dealt with, and mostly had to invent because I didn't find a suitable nautical campaign source for D&D in the 3e era.
Oh yeah, support 3e!
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