What would you want in a Deities sourcebook?
- Thread starter dcollins
- Start date
jerichothebard
First Post
haiiro said:Thirded.Sejs said:
The last thing I want is deity stats -- I find them completely useless. Everything else on the list I can make some use of, and tying it all together with a look at priesthoods and faiths would be the way to go.
Pretty much sums it up for me, too.
jtb.
Wombat
First Post
Umbran said:You missed out on one thing I'd prefer to see - a thoughtful and detailed workup not of the deities and powers, but on the priesthoods, their structures, politics and so on. Give me a good look into polytheism and the impact it has on the culture, and so on.
In other words, don't give me a book about deities. Give me a book on religions.
Let me join the chorus on this one!
Considering the number of "house campaigns" D&D now supports (Greyhawk, FR, Eberron, etc.), it would be more useful, in my opinion, to have much more generic information, building blocks for creating gods tailored to your own campaign and your own visions of how gods should act, rather than a lot of details on a specific god that might well be inappropriate for the campaign you are running. Articles on the human (et alia) hierarchy of the religions and the intersections between politics and religion (not always negative) would be very useful.
For those who want mortal gods, include ideas for such uberstats. Those of us who do not want killable gods will gleefully ignore this section
Still, many people want this for their epic campaigns, so I guess it would be silly to leave such ideas out.Theology, hierarchy, the common face of the temples would grab me in faster than anything else.
Aries_Omega
Explorer
Agreed
Not to sound like a Johnny Come-Lately but I agree. Why would you need to know what a deities fort save is. They are a freaking god! What part of that needs stats. Give me info of the religion, what the clerics do and spells for the deity. I am not too keen on new domains, but new prestige classes, adventure hooks, places of worship, new spells (not domains) and new magic items would be nice....as long as the book had info about the religion, holidays and common practices.
AriesOmega
Not to sound like a Johnny Come-Lately but I agree. Why would you need to know what a deities fort save is. They are a freaking god! What part of that needs stats. Give me info of the religion, what the clerics do and spells for the deity. I am not too keen on new domains, but new prestige classes, adventure hooks, places of worship, new spells (not domains) and new magic items would be nice....as long as the book had info about the religion, holidays and common practices.
AriesOmega
Trickstergod
First Post
I'm with Umbran.
The poll is rather, in my opinion, vacant on a few more pertinent options. Like detailing sects. Cults. Origin myths. That sort of thing. All of which are integral to a good book on deities. Those are what should come first. The sorts of things that the characters will interact with more often. That you can spin a tale out of. That you can use as motivation for the current antagonist. That you can use as a plot hook.
In the Scarred Lands game I'm currently running, a good chunk of the ideas I've run with, or flavor I've just added off to the side, has been from Divine and the Defeated, and its detailing of the various religions to the setting. Heck, most of my plot ideas for the Scarred Lands, ones I've used or haven't, have come from that book and all the story it's had packed into it. From the imprisoning of the djinn to the death of That Which Abides to the Cult of the Bull...heh.
Once stuff like that's been given ample room?
Stuff for the PC's and NPC's. Which might mean spells, or prestige classes, or magic items or what have you. Again, things that will come up during the game.
The least important thing for me to see is the statistics for the gods. Not that I think they're the worst thing in the world; just that they are the least important aspect to the book.
The poll is rather, in my opinion, vacant on a few more pertinent options. Like detailing sects. Cults. Origin myths. That sort of thing. All of which are integral to a good book on deities. Those are what should come first. The sorts of things that the characters will interact with more often. That you can spin a tale out of. That you can use as motivation for the current antagonist. That you can use as a plot hook.
In the Scarred Lands game I'm currently running, a good chunk of the ideas I've run with, or flavor I've just added off to the side, has been from Divine and the Defeated, and its detailing of the various religions to the setting. Heck, most of my plot ideas for the Scarred Lands, ones I've used or haven't, have come from that book and all the story it's had packed into it. From the imprisoning of the djinn to the death of That Which Abides to the Cult of the Bull...heh.
Once stuff like that's been given ample room?
Stuff for the PC's and NPC's. Which might mean spells, or prestige classes, or magic items or what have you. Again, things that will come up during the game.
The least important thing for me to see is the statistics for the gods. Not that I think they're the worst thing in the world; just that they are the least important aspect to the book.
Lokishadow
First Post
Fewer Gods, more detail
Details, details, details.
It's all about the details. One of the ways I brainstorm is not by reading statistics...anyone with a calculator and a reasonable amount of common sense can build an uber-character. I get my ideas by reading stories.
The more cultural and setting details are there for me to read, the more story there is, the more ideas I get for adventures. I get great ideas for adventures just by reading the ecology/society blocks in old 1st ed. monster manuals. Give me details, and I'll give you a hell of a campaign.
Details, details, details.
It's all about the details. One of the ways I brainstorm is not by reading statistics...anyone with a calculator and a reasonable amount of common sense can build an uber-character. I get my ideas by reading stories.
The more cultural and setting details are there for me to read, the more story there is, the more ideas I get for adventures. I get great ideas for adventures just by reading the ecology/society blocks in old 1st ed. monster manuals. Give me details, and I'll give you a hell of a campaign.
Connorsrpg
Adventurer
Deity Template
I am in agreeance with the majority....yes a follower I 'spose, but have NEVER needed a deity's stats.
Not wishing to highjack this thread, my friends and I are currently combining our three CS's into one and this is the Deity Template we have decided on. Any comments welcome, especially if you believe anything is missing.. (BTW our spells are divided into 3 categories as in AU, and clerics have access to Divine Simple & Complex). Domains allow choices from Exotic (though we have changed Domains too to Spell Paths where a cleric chooses their own spells from each lvl , with ideas for this under their deity).
Anyway check it out. I believe it includes all that you guys say you would like. (would love to know more if there is any improvements needed).
Connors
Deity Template (Greater/Intermediate/Lesser/Demi God/dess)
Titles (Alternative names, nicknames, possibly the names listed for what the deity in known as in different regions)
Symbol:
Alignment:
Portfolio:
Favoured Wpn:
Description
(Physical and personality)
History/Relations
(How the deity came to be. Where it fits into pantheon. Relations with other deities of the pantheon. Relations that exist with deities of other pantheons [State allies and enemies]. How these relations came about).
The Church
(General tenants of the church)
Typical Worshippers:
(What types of people usually follow this deity. Social class, class, profession)
Inter-church Relationships
(Relationships between this church and other churches? Cooperative, Tolerant, Opposed, Open Warfare?)
Church Structure
(Name of church, rankings, hierarchy. Role of wandering clerics and other classes)
Place of worship
(Homelands where church is found, as well as typical places of worship, such as soaring stone temples, hidden gardens, glades, etc)
Holy Days
(Days that are sacred to the deity. Festivals and what occurs on these days)
Raiment
(What is worn to signify a follower of this deity. Is there a standard garb? Is a certain ceremonial dress needed?)
Sacred colors/animals/places/items
(General items/things that are associated with the deity. Places considered sacred. Sacred animals etc)
Known Personalities
(Brief description of people important to this religion: leaders, founders, heroes, VIPs who are known supporters, saints, sacred/strange allies/guardians)
Clerics
Duties (inc’ sacrifice, restrictions)
(What is required of the priests other than daily prayer. What should they sacrifice? How often? Any benefits for doing so. Restrictions can lead to extra Domain powers and Spell Paths [minor restriction = add new Spell Path, major restriction = new domain power + Spell Path].
Day to Day Activities (inc: when to pray)
(What is required by a cleric everyday. What time they need to pray for spells and HOW they do it).
Dogma/Sayings
(Brief statements that can be used as sayings. Beliefs that this religion hold dear and the ideals a cleric should live by)
Common Multiclasses
(Which [if any] class clerics often multiclass into and which prestige classes are part of the church)
Domain/Divine powers:
(The domains powers available for clerics of this deity. List possible powers, 1st lvl Cleric starts with two.)
Skills & Feats:
(Common skills or feats employed by clerics of this deity. Ceremonial feats common and even those that will not be performed).
Spells:
(Themes for the Spell Path choices. Clerics must choose their Spell Path spells along one of these themes. Also – certain spells that may be barred or sacred to the church. Spells that work differently. Good place to detail themed summon monster spells so that they reflect the deity. Could do something similar for spells that affect weapons. Such as what weapon appears for the spiritual weapon and weapon of the deity spells)
Other:
(Any other mechanics info.)
I am in agreeance with the majority....yes a follower I 'spose, but have NEVER needed a deity's stats.
Not wishing to highjack this thread, my friends and I are currently combining our three CS's into one and this is the Deity Template we have decided on. Any comments welcome, especially if you believe anything is missing..
(BTW our spells are divided into 3 categories as in AU, and clerics have access to Divine Simple & Complex). Domains allow choices from Exotic (though we have changed Domains too to Spell Paths where a cleric chooses their own spells from each lvl , with ideas for this under their deity).Anyway check it out. I believe it includes all that you guys say you would like. (would love to know more if there is any improvements needed).
Connors
Deity Template (Greater/Intermediate/Lesser/Demi God/dess)
Titles (Alternative names, nicknames, possibly the names listed for what the deity in known as in different regions)
Symbol:
Alignment:
Portfolio:
Favoured Wpn:
Description
(Physical and personality)
History/Relations
(How the deity came to be. Where it fits into pantheon. Relations with other deities of the pantheon. Relations that exist with deities of other pantheons [State allies and enemies]. How these relations came about).
The Church
(General tenants of the church)
Typical Worshippers:
(What types of people usually follow this deity. Social class, class, profession)
Inter-church Relationships
(Relationships between this church and other churches? Cooperative, Tolerant, Opposed, Open Warfare?)
Church Structure
(Name of church, rankings, hierarchy. Role of wandering clerics and other classes)
Place of worship
(Homelands where church is found, as well as typical places of worship, such as soaring stone temples, hidden gardens, glades, etc)
Holy Days
(Days that are sacred to the deity. Festivals and what occurs on these days)
Raiment
(What is worn to signify a follower of this deity. Is there a standard garb? Is a certain ceremonial dress needed?)
Sacred colors/animals/places/items
(General items/things that are associated with the deity. Places considered sacred. Sacred animals etc)
Known Personalities
(Brief description of people important to this religion: leaders, founders, heroes, VIPs who are known supporters, saints, sacred/strange allies/guardians)
Clerics
Duties (inc’ sacrifice, restrictions)
(What is required of the priests other than daily prayer. What should they sacrifice? How often? Any benefits for doing so. Restrictions can lead to extra Domain powers and Spell Paths [minor restriction = add new Spell Path, major restriction = new domain power + Spell Path].
Day to Day Activities (inc: when to pray)
(What is required by a cleric everyday. What time they need to pray for spells and HOW they do it).
Dogma/Sayings
(Brief statements that can be used as sayings. Beliefs that this religion hold dear and the ideals a cleric should live by)
Common Multiclasses
(Which [if any] class clerics often multiclass into and which prestige classes are part of the church)
Domain/Divine powers:
(The domains powers available for clerics of this deity. List possible powers, 1st lvl Cleric starts with two.)
Skills & Feats:
(Common skills or feats employed by clerics of this deity. Ceremonial feats common and even those that will not be performed).
Spells:
(Themes for the Spell Path choices. Clerics must choose their Spell Path spells along one of these themes. Also – certain spells that may be barred or sacred to the church. Spells that work differently. Good place to detail themed summon monster spells so that they reflect the deity. Could do something similar for spells that affect weapons. Such as what weapon appears for the spiritual weapon and weapon of the deity spells)
Other:
(Any other mechanics info.)
Derulbaskul
Adventurer
Here's another vote for no stats.
Ever.
No, never again.
I want the sort of information that was found in the 2E FR series that began with Faiths & Avatars but with more details on each religion's "trade dress", pictures of clerics in typical raiment, religion-specific spells etc....
In other words, the same as what everyone else here wants.
I also think that if WotC publishes a book of divine stats again then they should have to pay some sort of fine to the gaming community... like be forced to declare every single book published to be open content.
Also, dcollins, your first two options, deity stats and avatar stats, are in both Deities & Demigods AND Faiths & Pantheons. I think you mean for the second option to read Faiths & Avatars but, IMO, that should be omitted because the long and complicated nature of 3E/3.5E stat blocks means that even avatar stats are going to be too long.
Ever.
No, never again.
I want the sort of information that was found in the 2E FR series that began with Faiths & Avatars but with more details on each religion's "trade dress", pictures of clerics in typical raiment, religion-specific spells etc....
In other words, the same as what everyone else here wants.
I also think that if WotC publishes a book of divine stats again then they should have to pay some sort of fine to the gaming community... like be forced to declare every single book published to be open content.
Also, dcollins, your first two options, deity stats and avatar stats, are in both Deities & Demigods AND Faiths & Pantheons. I think you mean for the second option to read Faiths & Avatars but, IMO, that should be omitted because the long and complicated nature of 3E/3.5E stat blocks means that even avatar stats are going to be too long.
Connorsrpg said:
looks good! a lot of work, but that's what makes things great
the only thing I would add that I didn't notice was an explanation of the gods relationship to the people... how does a (non-cleric) follower get the attention of his/her god? how much of what goes on in the world is noticed by the god? does the god actively intervene? or reward faithful followers? and the ultimate question: do the gods rely on the people, or the people on the gods?
stuff I really like:
relationships between deities, and between their respective churches
church hierarchies and priestly/clerical duties
holy days, clothing, etc to mark followers from the rest of society
ps -- one more thing I didn't see: the relationship between the church and society (civic leaders, etc)...
pps -- obviously, I fall into the "more on religions, less on the gods" category
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