Whatever happened to Necromancer Games?

[Imaro]

Many of the FR titles were crunch light.

Quite simply, the ones that sold less are less remembered.

But the pattern was also present for 3PPs.

Yes, but FR is a niche within a niche (I know I never bought any of the FR stuff, because I wasn't a FR player or GM in 3.x), this was marketed as specific FR stuff... bot generic fluff books (which I would think are more along the lines of something like Heroes of Horror) Just doesn't seem very good supporting evidence for a "pattern" concerning fluff vs. crunch.

 

[Ourph]

Other than PHB1, has there even *been* a second printing of any 4E book?

I know for certain that PHB2 had a second run. The first one sold through rather quickly and I actually had to wait on mine from Amazon until the second printing arrived. I seem to recall Scott Rouse giving a list of titles that had been reprinted a while ago that included several more (including the DMG1 and MM1), but my google-fu failed me and I can't find that particular post.

 

[DaveMage]

I know for certain that PHB2 had a second run. The first one sold through rather quickly and I actually had to wait on mine from Amazon until the second printing arrived. I seem to recall Scott Rouse giving a list of titles that had been reprinted a while ago that included several more (including the DMG1 and MM1), but my google-fu failed me and I can't find that particular post.

The core books, I can see, but I doubt you'll see many others. Same as with 3.x.

So, as to the original point - people not buying books in favor of the DDI - if you are a player and your primary reason for purchasing is your character build, why would you buy an errata-filled rule book (for $34.95 list), when the DDI is going to have everything you need from that book *and* outdate that printing almost as soon as you get it (and you don't even have to pay any extra!)?

 

[Jack99]

I know for certain that PHB2 had a second run. The first one sold through rather quickly and I actually had to wait on mine from Amazon until the second printing arrived. I seem to recall Scott Rouse giving a list of titles that had been reprinted a while ago that included several more (including the DMG1 and MM1), but my google-fu failed me and I can't find that particular post.

Yeah, me neither, but I did find the two weeks one by LeRouse PHB2 first print run sells out in a week.

 

[AllisterH]

I doubt it.
But I also don't see any relevance. The issue at hand was less crunch and more focus on setting and adventures. They *DID* do that.

The relevance is that it might also affect 4e sales of books...you might not know this as a non-4e player, but there HAS been a complete absence of *player* crunch in books like Open Grave and Underdark.

The compareable products in the 3.x age were both DM and player resources thus, potentially, the entire group was purchasing them....Nowadays, unless you're a DM (or a person that just likes reading stuff/fluff- surely a very small niche as you pointed out with regard to sales in the 3.x era), the 4e books are NOT a resource for players....The powers book, the Adv Vaults, the PHBs and that's it...everything else so far is a DM resource.

 

[BryonD]

The relevance is that it might also affect 4e sales of books...you might not know this as a non-4e player, but there HAS been a complete absence of *player* crunch in books like Open Grave and Underdark.

OK, so if you completely remove the context of my reply to Joe's statement and replace it with your own secret context, maybe it is relevant.

I said in the very first reply that it may be different in 4E.... But again, that's just context.

Honestly, I still greatly doubt it matters. But I don't much care.
I offered some facts as observed from the 3E/OGL days as input. Thats all.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

DM/Payer separation and the DDI

You know, I think this is another home run the DDI has hit.

I've never felt that it was a good thing to have feats and other player usable stuff in the same book with stuff that the DM might use to design the campaign. I think a big failure of 3E was the bundling of this stuff. Books like Heroes of Horrors and Libris Mortis were full of both stuff players wanted for their PCs, and stuff that it would be better if they didn't read.

Now, a person who isn't the DM can just get a DDI subscription and have everything he needs to build his character, without a bunch of DM-only stuff. It's a good separation.

As someone who will likely never run 4E, but who might consider playing in a game if a friend asked me to, I like this. I hate having to separate player knowledge from character knowledge, and it sounds like 4E and the DDI make this less necessary.

Ken

 

[D'karr]

You know, I think this is another home run the DDI has hit.

I've never felt that it was a good thing to have feats and other player usable stuff in the same book with stuff that the DM might use to design the campaign. I think a big failure of 3E was the bundling of this stuff. Books like Heroes of Horrors and Libris Mortis were full of both stuff players wanted for their PCs, and stuff that it would be better if they didn't read.

Now, a person who isn't the DM can just get a DDI subscription and have everything he needs to build his character, without a bunch of DM-only stuff. It's a good separation.

As someone who will likely never run 4E, but who might consider playing in a game if a friend asked me to, I like this. I hate having to separate player knowledge from character knowledge, and it sounds like 4E and the DDI make this less necessary.

Ken

When the 3.x Eberron Campaign Setting Book was first published this was one of my biggest complaints. All the "secrets" of the campaign were clearly exposed in the book, and the players needed to have access to it for their characters.

So in that sense I'm very glad that the books have tried to limit this cross-exposure.

I might be misremembering but wasn't there some information from either TSR or WotC that showed that DMs have always been the bulk buyers of the products in most cases?

I know that personally I have both a DDI subscription and continue to buy the books. There is a lot of information on the DDI side, and there is also information that is only available on the books.

So on some level WotC's DDI is fulfilling some needs and the books fulfill others.

I wonder how long it will be before someone hacks the Character Builder and creates an import tool for other information?

 

[Voadam]

There were a few WotC 3e no stat books.

The Guide to the Realms was a statless timeline book for the realms up through 3e and showing a touch of things to pre 4e.

Eberron had a 64 page statless guide to the campaign setting.

I don't know if you would consider A Practical Guide to Monsters and a Practical Guide to Dragons D&D books but they had no stats.

 

[AllisterH]

There were a few WotC 3e no stat books.

The Guide to the Realms was a statless timeline book for the realms up through 3e and showing a touch of things to pre 4e.

Eberron had a 64 page statless guide to the campaign setting..

Weren't these published near the tail end of 3e/just before 4e? Of course, it beggars the question, would WOTC 3.0 be as successful if WOTC had divided player crunch from player fluff/DM material as they have in 4e?

I don't know if you would consider A Practical Guide to Monsters and a Practical Guide to Dragons D&D books but they had no stats.

Aren't these classified by WOTC as being under the purview of the NOVELS section of the company?