Whats a player to do?

[Rothe]

Did I mention he is a stubbern man. I figure there is a good 50% chance that he will take it badly. With no other DM's around to take up the slack it could very well mean no gaming for a long while. I know I need to tell him but if I'm blunt about it I may end up with no gaming which would be much worse.

I was more wondering if anyone had ever had to deal with a similar situation and how they dealt with it. Is it common for long time DM's to become so self indulgent?

I wouldn't be blunt about all the things you mentioned. Pick one you'd like to change and don't touch the others. In a delicate negotiation such as this, think of the thing you really want and be prepared to give on the others or even praise them.

If you are more interested in not having to "save the world" every session, ask to go back to adventure where so much doesn't hang in the balance. You might also sell this as taking less work on the DMs part, after all it's got to be pretty hard to put together an overarching plot/adventure series like that. I'd avoid asking to change the setting. Here's why.

Setting can be a DMs creative outlet, by asking for him to use a commercial setting is implicitly saying his is not that good or fun. This is more likley to provoke a negative response. And as a long time DM I can see why, setting creation can be part of what makes the game fun for the DM, it's how he plays.

If you really want to play in Eberron or what have you, is it because there are some cool ideas in the commercial settings or is there something really goofy or weird that bugs you in his setting? If nothing goofy or weird, see if you can experience x in his setting. Ask him, I" really thought X in Eberron was cool, is there something like that in your world?" He is likely to be flattered you want to explore his world and you can still get that Eberron experience.

Finally, you might also explore other settings by taking trips off-world to these other settings. If you are willing to give on the "save the world" games to get to other settings; having to travel to other settings (or maybe create PCs in them and have them journey to your DMs setting) can be readily incorporated into a "save the world" game. Heck, you may need to save many worlds not just one!

 

[SiderisAnon]

A Few Suggestions

I have a few suggestions from a long-time DM. (Over 20 years.) During that period, I've DMed at least 90% of the time. It's not always been the same group of players. I'm just one of those weirdos that prefers to DM over being a players.

First, I disagree with the poster above who says to approach the DM as a group. You don't want your DM feeling like it's an ambush. (When outnumbered, that's just a human reaction.) Either have one person talk to him or get together and compose an e-mail to send to him.

Make sure that if you're going to say "all the players want this" that they really do. Talk to the players and make sure they do. There's nothing that will destroy your credibility quicker than finding out that half the people you thought were interested in something, aren't really.

Don't be confrontational. You said you're worried about the DM taking it wrong. Try using a question about a setting, if that's what you were after. "Hey, Bob and I have been reading the Eberron setting and it looks pretty cool. Have you thought about running it at some point?" (Don't do this during the session, because you don't want to make it look like you're saying Eberron would be better than the homebrew, even if it would be.) Get the dialog going and see if you can get the DM excited about what you're looking for.


Again, most of this assumes you think your DM is 50% likely to take things wrong. My players have made suggestions to me about things to run, and some we've worked together on and come up with fun campaigns, some I've nixed. (We had one Arthurian campaign where most of the group started talking one evening when the current campaign was about to wrap and we ended up as a group writing the setting then and there. On the other hand, I won't run Forgotten Realms because I know nothing about the setting and most of the players are intimately familiar, which I personally find to be a bad dynamic. Another person DMed the Forgotten Realms for our group.)


Something that I've run into is that I write homebrew at this point because I need it to keep me interested. None of the out-of-the-box campaign worlds have really inspired me in the past few years. (Though Eberron came very close for me.) Since you said your DM is also a very long-term DM, they may be having the same issue.

(I do realize that this jaded look at published settings is my own problem, not the settings.)

Another thing to consider is that the DM may think the players expect homebrew. I currently have a group of players who expect a very detailed campaign world from day one. In the old days, I could start a campaign with little more background material than, "This is where you are from. Make characters." Unfortunately, some of my players are a little more jaded and a little more spoiled by multi-book campaign settings, so they expect more. (It balances, because I've seen them take that material and run with it in ways that I never expected and which keep me quite entertained.) However, your DM may think your players also expect the homebrew. If you don't, then maybe the DM needs to know that.


Whatever you decide to do. Good luck.

 

[Quasqueton]

"Hey, buddy. I just bought this Eberron campaign setting, and it seems really interesting. With your DM skills, I bet it would be ultra cool. Would you be willing to try DMing a few game sessions in Eberron? I'll buy you the book for your own. I'll help you however I can."

Quasqueton

 

[Tewligan]

I mean we don't have anyone else who really wants to DM so we kinda feel like we have to put up with whatever he wants to do.

If no one else can be bothered to DM now and then, then yeah, you kind of DO have to put up with whatever he wants to do.

 

[|)ar|{]

So I think I get what you guys are saying. For my DM, epic, low combat, home brewed worlds are both what makes DM'ing fun for him and a natural part of his growth. Perhaps we should push to have some other players DM even if its out of theri comfort zone. That way he will both get a break and see that for players sometimes simple is fun too.
Thanks for the insights guys, it was very helpful,
Dark

 

[TerraDave]

If he's as good as you say he is, then he'll accept that critism and tweak his game to include some more action in it. I've gotten lots of responses from players over hte years that have caused me to change the direction i was going or reexamine a plot line.

And thats probably the angle to take.

Things like "Eberon might be better" or "use these premade adventures instead" are not the way to go. Instead, focus more on the details of what you are missing (magic, mayhem...). And praise, praise, praise the whole time.

Or, as another poster touched on, DM yourself. It lets the other DM take a break (to have even more time for world building) and play a bit. Sometimes if you want something you have to do it yourself.

EDIT: OK, and you just said some of this above

 

[billd91]

Perhaps we should push to have some other players DM even if its out of theri comfort zone.

Try some games as one-shot (or maybe 2 sessions) as a break with the new DMs. They aren't as challenging to prepare and run as ongoing campaigns. And if that's good, scheduling them regularly. Maybe every 2 months you take some time out for one-shots.

 

[DonTadow]

And thats probably the angle to take.

Things like "Eberon might be better" or "use these premade adventures instead" are not the way to go. Instead, focus more on the details of what you are missing (magic, mayhem...). And praise, praise, praise the whole time.

Or, as another poster touched on, DM yourself. It lets the other DM take a break (to have even more time for world building) and play a bit. Sometimes if you want something you have to do it yourself.

EDIT: OK, and you just said some of this above

The best DMs are created from angry players.

 

[balterkn]

As someone who has DM'ed too much, I partly agree with Pbartender. Really the game involves a DM and several players - players want to have fun, and so do DMs. As long as you can keep your mutual goal of having fun, that's great. Sounds like there has been some shift from what you as a player want and what the DM wants to do.

To a certain extent, there is lots of prep work to being a DM, so there should be some latitude to a DM working on an adventure or campaign that they find fun. Unless you have the uber-rare luck of having a paid/professional DM, then whoever is DMing needs to have fun also and shouldn't be forced to do something they won't enjoy.

On the other hand, a DM is nothing without players who want to do their part to have fun also. The players should not be forced to not have fun by catering to the whims of the DM's creation regardless of their enjoyment for the plot.

In my experience, when people indicate that they "don't like where the campaign has gone" that is normally because they didn't express a preference or exert their character's will in the campaign world. Or the people need to talk about what kind of game they want to play - as people who are friends/acquaintances who want to hang out and do stuff together - not as "Player" to "DM".

So, solutions... eh... if you don't like the DM's style/world/etc, pony up and offer to DM - you can be a DM as easily as the current DM. Being a DM is a role in the game. If nobody wants to DM a style/world/etc, then that becomes a very difficult problem (typically involving someone doing something they don't want to do).

 

[balterkn]

The best DMs are created from angry players.

Amen!

(mostly because that's the only time DMs get honest feedback!)