What's a resonable price-point for entry into the RPG hobby?

ShadowDenizen

Explorer
This came up in the D+D-specific forums (specifically the "Would you pay $50 for a "Standard" PHB?" thread), but I think it's worth bringing up as a general question.

SO..
What's a reasonable price-point for new players to enter into the RPG hobby?

(I"ll refrain from posting my thoughts until later, so as to make this an open conversation.) :)
 

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delericho

Legend
Ideally, $0. The best way for a new player to get started remains for them to join an existing group. So, they can play with no materials, decide they like the game, and then invest in the $50 PHB if they like it. (And $50 for a game you know you like really isn't unreasonable.)

Failing that, it would be good if companies would put QuickStart materials on their websites for free use. These don't need to be elaborate - a pregen adventure, some pregen characters, and a rules primer, just enough to get started. Of course, not all companies are able/willing to do that.

But failing that, I think the $35 Paizo have set as the RRP for their Beginner Box is very reasonable. (The $20 WotC set for their 4e Red Box was also quite reasonable, but I really don't rate that as a product. The 5e box would appear to have the same price point, which is good... providing it is good.)

A 300+ page hardback is a poor entry point for a new game, be that at $50, $40, or even $20.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
What's a reasonable price-point for new players to enter into the RPG hobby?

That's an interesting question. I have to counter with another question - what counts as "entry into the RPG hobby"?

Broad generalization - you don't need to own a copy of the rules to play D&D (or most RPGs). In order to play without owning the rules, you need to spend a bit more time with people to learn from them, but it isn't rocket science. I know many gearheads on these boards may find that unthinkable, but I suspect the majority of folks don't tinker with rules much between sessions, which means they probably don't need to own a copy of the books. I'm currently running a classic Deadlands game - I'm the only one in the group who owns the rules. I'm considering starting a Shadowrun game. Again, I don't expect anyone else in the group to buy the rules.

So, by my observation, given a mentor, the dollar cost for entry for a player is already zero dollars.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Entry-wise, the biggest barrier isn't a book price. It's all about someone introducing you to the hobby. That someone always has the books already.

So the entry price is zero, and has been for decades. The price comes in a bit later when/if you decide to purchase your own books.

I've played with folks for years who shelled out exactly £0. Maybe a few dice.
 


billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Entry-wise, the biggest barrier isn't a book price. It's all about someone introducing you to the hobby. That someone always has the books already.

So the entry price is zero, and has been for decades. The price comes in a bit later when/if you decide to purchase your own books.

I've played with folks for years who shelled out exactly £0. Maybe a few dice.

I think it's a reasonable question to ask if that player, who hasn't invested in his own copy of the rules, is really an equal participant in the hobby. Does someone who never invests in any game book going to be a long-term participant? I've seen quite a few people introduced to the game, but I also usually don't see them continue long term without investing in it themselves.

I also think it's worth looking at who is investing in the game on their behalf if they're not investing themselves.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I think it's a reasonable question to ask if that player, who hasn't invested in his own copy of the rules, is really an equal participant in the hobby. Does someone who never invests in any game book going to be a long-term participant? I've seen quite a few people introduced to the game, but I also usually don't see them continue long term without investing in it themselves.

Yes, but then it's not an entry price. The entry system is - generally, but not always - handled by 'gatekeepers'; by people, not by products. The product comes later if the initial wooing succeeds.

There are exceptions, but that's a very common entry scenario. Curious person invited to a game, borrows books for a while, and if they stuck around probably ends up buying them. Rarely do brand-new folks buy the books and then start looking around for a game.
 

gamerprinter

Mapper/Publisher
I'd agree with the others so far, that the best entry cost is $0.

I've seen game systems where the base rules is a free product, but specific themed games and adventures are low cost additions to the basic game. These are often start-up products as might be produced by a smaller or unknown publisher. For a new game by a smaller publisher, I think this is a normal expectation.

The larger games produced by larger publishers can expect and get away with releasing the basic game (Core rules) as paid for hard cover, though almost always there are secondary free or lower cost entry products to get involved, like providing an SRD document with free access online to that resource. This applies to games like D&D or Pathfinder.

While there's a definite cost to any kind of game development, the needs of the Core rules is often less expensive than the cost of creating an adventure, as adventure almost always require paid-for illustrations and maps which greatly increase the costs of creation. Core rules often also include illustrations, though this is usually not necessary. Free adventures (IMO) should not be an expectation.

The only free adventure, I've ever provided for my Kaidan setting of Japanese horror, for example was the Frozen Wind one-shot module. Because the author planned to attend Origins and run some Con games, he wrote the complete adventure at his own cost without expectation for compensation. Because I am the primary developer of the setting, and am also both an illustrator and cartographer I opted to create cover art, several pieces of interior illustration and the adventure map on my own, also without expectation of compensation. So, at this point, before that product was ever intended for public release, large portions of the development was already complete. The only needed development cost was to pay for editing, and the author and I decided (rightly or wrongly) to not use an editor to save on that expense, try to edit the document ourselves (apparently not as successfully done as we desired) and release it as a free product - a good setting entry tool to getting new fans to the setting. Had the writing, illustration and cartography not already existed - trying to pay for that with a free product is not generally possible, nor expected. It was a rare opportunity, that we took advantage of in releasing, since the work and costs involved were already generated. Also since the base product was 'paid for' and little additional expenses were included for final release, Steven Russell, the publisher, opted to have a POD printed version of the book made available as well. Keeping the free development intact, that product is at a very low price point for a print product, because the only costs to the user is the POD printing itself, and DTRPG's expected profit margin - as a free product the publisher and developers get no payment from this product.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I think it's a reasonable question to ask if that player, who hasn't invested in his own copy of the rules, is really an equal participant in the hobby.

Oh, my goodness. Are we going to, "You aren't a *real* game if you don't..," territory? Really?

I gauge participation by engagement *at the table*. What you have on the bookshelf at home does not tell me if you're a participant. Anyone can own books. Not everyone goes to sessions, makes time for them, and takes enthusiastic part in play.

Does someone who never invests in any game book going to be a long-term participant?

That question is based on the presumption that there's some causal relationship between owning rules and long-term play. I don't think that's the case. If they aren't having fun, or they no longer have the time, having spent a few bucks won't keep them around.

I've seen quite a few people introduced to the game, but I also usually don't see them continue long term without investing in it themselves.

And I have a campaign currently running on three years, where only one player invested in rules (and he had to leave the game because his schedule changed - the investment didn't mean he could skip out on his paycheck!). I was playing in a Star Wars Sage Edition game that ran for two years, in which no player invested a single dollar in rules.

So much for dueling anecdotes.

I also think it's worth looking at who is investing in the game on their behalf if they're not investing themselves.

It isn't like I've bought rules for any of my players. I invest some time in getting them up to speed on rules - but I'd do much of that anyway, to make sure our interpretation of the rules was the same. But, assume I'm spending more time than I would if they owned their own copies of the rules. This is a hobby - its primary goal is to spend my time in interesting ways in good company. So investment of of a bit of time teaching players really isn't an issue.

I submit, in fact, that my players not having their own copies of rules has sped up game play - they rely on me for rules in-session, and don't spend time looking things up in the middle of combats!
 
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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
Oh, my goodness. Are we going to, "You aren't a *real* game if you don't..," territory? Really?

I gauge participation by engagement *at the table*. What you have on the bookshelf at home does not tell me if you're a participant. Anyone can own books. Not everyone goes to sessions, makes time for them, and takes enthusiastic part in play.

Get off your high horse, Umbran. There's engagement at the table, but there's also engagement and preparation away from the table. And it has been my experience that you generally don't get one without the other. I know of very few gamers who haven't invested something in the hobby. They may not always be investing the same for all of the games they play, but investment in one almost always helps understanding and participation in the others and lack of investment in anything generally hinders.

The ubiquity of D&D as an experience in the RPG hobby will pretty much guarantee that there will be people entering the hobby through that point in the near future. D&D will be someone's first gaming experience and the first game they will be tempted to buy. And yes, some will want to buy it off the shelves without being taken to their first game even if they are the minority. Assuming they aren't pricing themselves out of that market...
 

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