What's ahead for D&D? What approach will WotC take?

[Otterscrubber]

I really like D&D Insider, mainly because there are so many rules in so many places it is impossible to sit down and make a character without 4 different books. That you may or may not have. Having it all in one place is wonderful, but I love the books. Being able to sit down and make a character with A single book is something I would like them to bring back.

I understand the need to make new products to keep the company going. I am 34 years old and have been playing D&D since I was in 3rd grade. I love this game. But they are about to lose me if they don't solve this issue that I can't make a fighter unless I have the core rulebook, plus the 2 or 3 martial power related splatbooks AND cross referenced with any "Essentials" products. This is BS. If you want to make a bunch of books, come out with your rule book, your class book, your monster book. Never, ever touch the class or the rule book (obviously this requires them to get the balance correct through play testing, but they are treating this the way Blizzard treats classes in WoW) and print up more monsters, campaign books, adventures ad nauseum but dont FORCE me to buy new class or rule books. And if you make new classes, make sure they are balanced with the core classes so you dont feel a need to go back and "revise" or "fix" the old classes to keep up with the new ones. Make a strategy, pick a plan, implement it, then stick to it.

The friends I've playe D&D with since 3rd grade are also in the same boat I am. I liked 4e and it's changes. I thought it was an interesting move, but Wizards has clearly stumbled in it's vision, this is clear with the release of the Essentials line. Which incidentally I do like. But step up, codify and unify your documentation and make it avaialable in a manageable set of books. I ride a motorcycle, if I need more than one backpack to put my books in to get to game night, game over........

 

[Otterscrubber]

I don't think that the DDI or electronic tools will play much of a part in the future of D&D unless WOTC starts treating it seriously and gives more support and development than it currently receives.

Yes, good point. It appeared they were really about to go electronic and make a ton of cool software to help DMs and Players get a game going even over long distances. This appeals to me as several of my childhood friends like to play D&D, but we live in various places. Wizards hinted at making a cool online system to play on and I have yet to see anything developed on this. The D&D Tools so far consists of only 1 tool, the monster builder. I love it, but can't help but notice those 4 other empty bubbles that taunt me every time I log into it. Where are they? It's been a few years and I've been paying my dues hoping to see these new features. Perhaps all the folks who should have been working on them have been too busy adding all the splat into keeping the character builder updated.

 

[Umbran]

I love it, but can't help but notice those 4 other empty bubbles that taunt me every time I log into it. Where are they? It's been a few years and I've been paying my dues hoping to see these new features. Perhaps all the folks who should have been working on them have been too busy adding all the splat into keeping the character builder updated.

Theoretically possible, but unlikely. More likely is that, in this past couple of years of economic downturn, and having gotten burned in previous attempts, WotC is not yet willing to stretch out to try that risk again.

 

[gamerprinter]

While I should stay out of this thread, since I don't play 4e, nor use the DDi, I do find it curious that Wizards can't put out an online map tool or online VTT app, when there are dozens of such VTT solutions out there. Some of them well established like Herolabs, some that are free and well developed without any kind of financial backing at all, like MapTools.

It should be a simple matter of Wizards buying one of them, then hiring developers, or even the original developers and making it possible. Its not like they have to invent a new one, just one that works.

Let's say they bought MapTools. They could have a solution right now, put it into the DDi and be done with it. They could pay the original developers to tweak the system to specific needs they have, and in 3-6 months time have a product that best meets their needs and the problem would have been solved a couple years ago.

It really makes no sense to me, that they can't or won't do this - to me the answer is obvious.

That's my 2 cents.

GP

 

[ExploderWizard]

Yes, good point. It appeared they were really about to go electronic and make a ton of cool software to help DMs and Players get a game going even over long distances. This appeals to me as several of my childhood friends like to play D&D, but we live in various places. Wizards hinted at making a cool online system to play on and I have yet to see anything developed on this. The D&D Tools so far consists of only 1 tool, the monster builder. I love it, but can't help but notice those 4 other empty bubbles that taunt me every time I log into it. Where are they? It's been a few years and I've been paying my dues hoping to see these new features. Perhaps all the folks who should have been working on them have been too busy adding all the splat into keeping the character builder updated.

This sort of thing happens when one hires an outside entity to do things of a specific nature (such as source code writing) then gets rid of them while retaining an unfinished project they do not fully understand how to complete or make significant changes to. Add budget crackdowns on top of that and you have a half-assed product that needs to be scrapped or given some actual attention. Doing neither isn't a good option.

 

[Cor_Malek]

I do find it curious that Wizards can't put out an online map tool or online VTT app, when there are dozens of such VTT solutions out there. Some of them well established like Herolabs, some that are free and well developed without any kind of financial backing at all, like MapTools.
(...)
It really makes no sense to me, that they can't or won't do this - to me the answer is obvious.

We need to remember that they're Hasbro's subsidiary, and Wizards themselves have ventures other than the DnD. When an entity owns several businesses, they need to weight cost of opportunity between more than one product line. So with set budget for R&D, new option's they have - need to beat all other possibilities they have for putting it into. If they wanted to extend this budget (not so likely in this economic climate), they'd probably need a "go" from Hasbro, so they'd also have to beat other possibilities they have.

Besides, do those map builders really generate income? Dundjinni, while still being offered - have stopped putting out new updates - this is hardly sign of it being highly profitable. MapTools, as you yourself pointed out - is free. It's also in state of continual development, and really doesn't fit the whole "short and easy prep" philosophy that WotC set for 4e. In fact, no map maker does*, which I'd guess is why they rather stick with dungeon tiles.

Wizards have rather been cutting back on new products, and digital ones in particular (ie pdf's, but also other online tools). What little resources do those departments have, needs to be stretched for sustaining DDI content, which as we see lately is already demanding.

So: would it be profitable? Maybe, maybe not. Is that good enough to beat other product possibilities? Apparently not.



*One could say that after some time, making a cool map with tools like Dundjinni, MapTool or even Gimp or Photoshop is quick and easy - and he'd be right. But we need to take into account how much time needs to be spent to get acquainted with said tool.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

While I should stay out of this thread, since I don't play 4e, nor use the DDi, I do find it curious that Wizards can't put out an online map tool or online VTT app, when there are dozens of such VTT solutions out there. Some of them well established like Herolabs, some that are free and well developed without any kind of financial backing at all, like MapTools.

It should be a simple matter of Wizards buying one of them, then hiring developers, or even the original developers and making it possible. Its not like they have to invent a new one, just one that works.

Let's say they bought MapTools. They could have a solution right now, put it into the DDi and be done with it. They could pay the original developers to tweak the system to specific needs they have, and in 3-6 months time have a product that best meets their needs and the problem would have been solved a couple years ago.

It really makes no sense to me, that they can't or won't do this - to me the answer is obvious.

That's my 2 cents.

GP

Do you know how many years it took to code maptools? Do you think that Wotc can throw an unlimited number of programmers at it? At most i would guess that they can put two or three people to work to integrate it into 4e and DDI. That will take 1,5 years + because Character tool is still not workable. And did you ever try one of those macro-based methods of filling tokens with monster data in Maptool? It's buggy like hell. God, you would have to rewrite the macro system, create lobbies, integrate the thing into a "gamers seeking gamers" website, make it compatible with Character Builder and Monster Builder, make it compatible with the Compendium....

This is not "obvious." Programming is hard, it costs a lot, and would people really pay that much more for DDI to make this worthwile for Wizards? Would you pay 3 Dollars more a month?

Oh, and let me tell you with emphasis:

adapting a program you didn't write yourself is a nightmare.

This "gosh, it's easy to do" idea was responsible for the DDI disaster in the first place.

 

[gamerprinter]

Which is why I suggested to not buy some half-designed product, but a completely finished product, and pay the original developers to make the tweaks necessary to fit WotC's exact needs.

Let somebody else code it from scratch and when complete - buy it. That's how other big companies operate.

Regarding the weighing of costs between ventures in a single company owned by Hasbro. From all the vile complaints of not getting a 'game table', one would think that buying an existing VT app, making it available to DDi would be an easy and profitable solution.

Take all I say with a grain of salt, since I do not support 4e, and by preference would want WotC to stay out of MapTools business. As a gamer, I don't want WotC to do that.

But from a business point of view, I see it as a very smart decision and something Hasbro/WotC should do. And by not doing something like that, it seems like a poor business decision not pursuing that line of thinking.

I'm no coder, and I realize that coding a usable VT app is harder than one thinks, however, as I said in my previous posts - there's something like 20 companies offering VT apps now, and almost none of them had any serious capital to work with in developing those tools. Now you look at Hasbro/WotC and you know there's capital available to spend. Why not spend it, for a great return on investment?

GP

 

[MichaelSomething]

Just operate under the assumption that whatever WOTC does will deepen upset you, be more video gamey/anime like, destroy the future of D&D, be done entirely due to corporate profiteering, etc.

Man, I'm getting cynical.

 

[gamerprinter]

Just clarifying, while I don't 'support' 4e, its just not my game. It is an enjoyable game, and worthy of playing - I know people who do. 4e just doesn't scratch my gaming itch.

I play live games with maps I print, so I have no needs of VT apps in my game. I know, however, there's a community who want to or have no choice but use one if they hope to play, based on circumstance.

There's a need out there, its just I don't need it.

GP