Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
Li Shenron said:
In 4e an AP gives you an extra action (your choice of Standard, Move or Minor). No more than once per encounter.
Cheers
What's all this re-roll stuff?
- Thread starter squalie
- Start date
In 4e an AP gives you an extra action (your choice of Standard, Move or Minor). No more than once per encounter.
Cheers
Li Shenron
Legend
Plane Sailing said:
Thanks.
Uhm... may be even harder to find a nice in-game explanation, particularly if the player chooses to use it to move +50% than her maximum.
Campbell
Relaxed Intensity
Li Shenron said:
That's easy. 60 feet of movement does not represent the maximum amount that character can move in a given round, only the amount they can usually move given the circumstances of the chaotic melee they normally find themselves embroiled in. When a player spends an action point to move an extra 30 feet their character is able to make out a clear path that would have otherwise be denied them.
Or see Hong's Second Law.
It's the actual re-roll. I just think it takes you out of the moment. It literally re-writes history almost as often as you'd like. Who wants a possible "deus ex machina" every encounter.?
It's hard for my brain to wrap around a character attempting something ludicrous, because he knows he has "action points" saved up just in case that Troll gets lucky...
I'm lovin' 4E, but this is not D&D at all.
AZRogue
Explorer
In 4E, Action Points don't grant re-rolls, though their may be racial Luck abilities that DO. And, those, would be explained by ... luck. Since they're Racial Luck abilities.
As to Action Points, they're an in-game device to grant another action a round. They work like this (from what we know):
1. You get 1 Action Point when you start a new day (after rest, whatever).
2. You can only use 1 Action Point per Encounter.
3. The Action Point allows you to take another action.
4. You earn an extra Action Point after every 2 Encounters.
So, with these points in mind, I really like the way Action Points are used. For one, they can be described as your player "pushing" himself past his normal limits for one adrenaline fueled burst. Piece of cake for a DM used to explaining how dragons fly and what-not. Second, they encourage a party to keep going further without resting since you earn more as you go along. Those parties that want to push forward even after using a lot of their abilities aren't as gimped since they'll have more Action Points.
Two very positive results, and easy to adjudicate and describe.
As to Action Points, they're an in-game device to grant another action a round. They work like this (from what we know):
1. You get 1 Action Point when you start a new day (after rest, whatever).
2. You can only use 1 Action Point per Encounter.
3. The Action Point allows you to take another action.
4. You earn an extra Action Point after every 2 Encounters.
So, with these points in mind, I really like the way Action Points are used. For one, they can be described as your player "pushing" himself past his normal limits for one adrenaline fueled burst. Piece of cake for a DM used to explaining how dragons fly and what-not. Second, they encourage a party to keep going further without resting since you earn more as you go along. Those parties that want to push forward even after using a lot of their abilities aren't as gimped since they'll have more Action Points.
Two very positive results, and easy to adjudicate and describe.
DamnedChoir
First Post
I'm personally not at all convinced by 4E though I like some of the ideas they're doing. (Mostly it's the large amount of tiny modifiers, tokens, movement on grids, and small number of builds that get me uneasy.)
However, I've noticed alot of people seem to be grasping, either for reasons why problems that seem to be likely in 4E aren't problems, or in this case, where something that was a house rule in 3.5, is a main rule in Eberron and SW D20, etc, is a reason that they won't switch to 4E. Really, action points? That's your big hate? How hard is it to give someone an extra attack once per encounter?
However, I've noticed alot of people seem to be grasping, either for reasons why problems that seem to be likely in 4E aren't problems, or in this case, where something that was a house rule in 3.5, is a main rule in Eberron and SW D20, etc, is a reason that they won't switch to 4E. Really, action points? That's your big hate? How hard is it to give someone an extra attack once per encounter?
To those who believe action points destroy roleplaying: Congratulations, you have disproved Eberron. Check your bookshelf, seriously, there should just be a pile of ash where your Eberron sourcebooks used to sit.
To those who believe that action points grant rerolls: They don't. They grant extra actions.
To those who want rerolls replaced with static modifiers: This could work, but you wouldn't get the same odds. The value of a reroll scales based on the difficulty of the initial roll in a manner different from that of a static modifier.
For example, if you hit on an 11+, you have a 50% chance of hitting. Giving you a reroll increases your overall chance to 75%. You would have to grant a +5 static modifier to accomplish that.
But if you hit on a 16+, which is a 25% chance of hitting, a reroll improves your overall chances to about 44%. You'd need a static modifier of about +4 to accomplish that.
And if you hit on a 19+, which is a 10% chance of hitting, a reroll improves your overall chances to about 19%, which is the equivalent of a static modifier of +2.
Things change similarly if you move the chance of hitting downwards.
Meanwhile, rerolls are easily applied after you know the outcome of your attack, and they don't rely on metagame knowledge to do so. If you miss, you just ask to reroll the attack. This gives you a "I saved the day!" feeling when it works. You don't get a similar feeling from declaring that your next attack roll is going to be +4 due to a per encounter ability, then rolling.
And powers that add static numbers after the dice have already been rolled have been tried in the past, and while they weren't horrible, they did rely a bit on metagame reasoning. A player who knows how much they were hit by is better off using something like Zephyr's Dodge from Book of Nine Swords, because they can make sure to always use it in a situation where it will result in an avoided attack. This turns the power into an "always works if you pay attention to the numbers" type situation, instead of a randomized one.
To those who believe that action points grant rerolls: They don't. They grant extra actions.
To those who want rerolls replaced with static modifiers: This could work, but you wouldn't get the same odds. The value of a reroll scales based on the difficulty of the initial roll in a manner different from that of a static modifier.
For example, if you hit on an 11+, you have a 50% chance of hitting. Giving you a reroll increases your overall chance to 75%. You would have to grant a +5 static modifier to accomplish that.
But if you hit on a 16+, which is a 25% chance of hitting, a reroll improves your overall chances to about 44%. You'd need a static modifier of about +4 to accomplish that.
And if you hit on a 19+, which is a 10% chance of hitting, a reroll improves your overall chances to about 19%, which is the equivalent of a static modifier of +2.
Things change similarly if you move the chance of hitting downwards.
Meanwhile, rerolls are easily applied after you know the outcome of your attack, and they don't rely on metagame knowledge to do so. If you miss, you just ask to reroll the attack. This gives you a "I saved the day!" feeling when it works. You don't get a similar feeling from declaring that your next attack roll is going to be +4 due to a per encounter ability, then rolling.
And powers that add static numbers after the dice have already been rolled have been tried in the past, and while they weren't horrible, they did rely a bit on metagame reasoning. A player who knows how much they were hit by is better off using something like Zephyr's Dodge from Book of Nine Swords, because they can make sure to always use it in a situation where it will result in an avoided attack. This turns the power into an "always works if you pay attention to the numbers" type situation, instead of a randomized one.
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