What's going to happen to druids?

[DrSpunj]

That came from an informal YouTube interview with James Wyatt, not some carefully-composed blog post. His remark about the Warlord class was pretty odd in that he said that he read about it on a messageboard, something his interviewer gave him a bit of ribbing about.

In case you and others hadn't realized it, that "informal YouTube interview" was done by WotC.

The interviewer was Mike Lescault, aka Gamer_Zer0, who is the Online Communities Manage at WotC and basically runs the WotC Boards. Read his blog from Gen Con here along with all the other Wizards' Staff Blogs in that same forum.

With that understanding, I agree with alaric that Wyatt let something extra slip. Still, everything is subject to change before release.

Thanks.

 

[Felon]

Rumor? This was never a rumor, it was a long interview about a specific topic. It's not like it was an off the cuff comment.

It's a rumor that stemmed from a fairly short interview that spawned some unscripted, off-the-cuff commentary. Not sure how you watched the same interview and got such a contrary perspective.

In case you and others hadn't realized it, that "informal YouTube interview" was done by WotC.

I don't know why you have "informal YouTube interview" in scare quotes. Because it was conducted by GamerZero, that means what? When I say "informal", I don't mean "unprofessional", I just mean it doesn't come across like a Tonight Show interview where Jay Leno and his guest get together and discuss what funny little harmless PG-rated anecdote the guest is going to tell beforehand.

I do hope we've interpreted the "slip" about the warlord correctly, rather than him having a bit of fun with something he read on the messageboards.

 

[GAAAHHH]

The layout seems to be Power source/party role:
Power Source: Martial Arcane Divine
Role: Defender Striker Controller Leader

Fighter - Martial Defender
Rogue - Martial Striker
Warlord - Martial Leader
Sorcerer - Arcane Striker
Wizard - Arcane Controller
Paladin - Divine Defender
Ranger - Divine Striker? They said Rangers were killing Scouts and taking their stuff.
Cleric - Divine Leader
I think Druid would fall under Divine Controller. Bard could be Martial Controller, but rumors are that they might not be in the player's handbook 1. I'm not sure what power source/role monks would be. They might get cut for a later sourcebook too (pure speculation on my part).

 

[Felon]

The layout seems to be:
Power Source Martial Arcane Divine
Role Defender Fighter ? Paladin
Striker Rogue Sorcerer Ranger
Controller ? Wizard ?(Druid, maybe)
Leader Marshal ? Cleric

Rumors have Bard as possibly being cut from Player's Handbook 1. Rangers are supposed to kill the Scout and take its stuff. I'm not sure about the Monk or Barbarian. Maybe Arcane Defender and Martial Controller, respectively, but nothing definite yet.

Well, going by Wyatt's interview (which is largely just a review of archetypes that have been long established in MMO's) wizards and sorcerers would both be controllers if they both cast from the same arcane spell list (which is their means to exert control).

"Control" isn't just entangles and sleeps and webs, it's also AoE damage effects; i.e, a fireball is a "controller" effect, not a "striker" effect. Basically, effects that are good against multiple targets are "control" effects. whereas a "striker" effect is focusing heavy damage on a single target.

Druids will make it into the game one way or another. The big question is how, and what currently has to get cut. Right now, they make primo controllers and defenders. Starting around 7th level, they're not too shabby in the striking department either. And they've got great buffs to hand out, so leader is covered.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

yeah, i dont know what role they would cover. I would personally like it if they became controllers, and kept summoning (hopefully spontaneous) and spells like entangle and wall of thorns. Wildshape could be more for a way for the druid to get around to better control, rather then wade into combat..

I wouldn't mind if the druid in 4e was a cleric, just so long is its a wide divergence from standard clerics, and feels uneqly druid.

 

[Khaalis]

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned, but in one of the interviews it is mentioned that at this stage all classes are being designed to fit a role, but that there are also some plans in play for classes that stretch or cross those rolls. I think it was Wyatt, but I'm not certain (too many blogs and videos absorbed in the past few days to remember).

Anyway, I remember that it was implied that they are looking at a small selection of multi-role classes, that may or may not make PHB1. From the interview it sounded like he was referring to classes like Bard and Druid. Bard is a mix of Controller, Striker (via skill monkey) and Defender (martial skill). Druids have classically been a quadruple threat class (and thus why broken), being able to fill controller, striker, defender and leader rolls. Also, if as so many doomsayers say, classes take some tips from WoW, this all the more supports the Druid as a multi-role class (healer, controller, tank, striker).

On another note, I specifically remember it being said that some of the sacred cows were being tossed with the bath water. This might indicate that the Druid WILL cease to be a core class and be subsumed into the Cleric/Priest role, similar to how the Ranger is rumored to be losing its "Nature Defender" aspects.

It shall be an interesting few months I think.

 

[Baby Samurai]

similar to how the Ranger is rumored to be losing its "Nature Defender" aspects.

We know the ranger is slapping the scout and taking his purse, but I really, really hope they remove any form of spellcasting.

Talk to shrubbery…yay.

 

[Li Shenron]

Maybe... Druids are simply Clerics with a 'Nature talent tree' ?



Woudn't that be nice

For me, it would be horrible. Furthermore, there can be many types of druid concepts:

- natural healer
- feral shapeshifter
- protector/guardian of nature
- fey-touched
- animals' friend
- master of the raw elements
- master of the weather

...and more.

With so many different concepts, it DESERVES its own class. Making it a subset of the cleric means to devalue it a lot... do you really want that? :\

Actually, the (supposed) overpoweredness of the 3.5 druid is caused by the fact that one class tried to allow ALL those concepts at once by default, instead of letting the player pick one or more "paths" at the cost of the others.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Li Shenron, I think that depends on how it is done. Basically the Druid is a character that channels the power of Nature in aspects of:
- natural healer - feral shapeshifter - protector/guardian of nature
- fey-touched - animals' friend - master of the raw elements
- master of the weather ...and more

Clerics are basically characters that channel the power of [insert diety/concept/etc... here] in aspects of:
- Healing - protector/guardian of X - master of elements - master of weather... and more

If both classes are folded into a core mechanic of a divinely powered character that can progress along a variety of 'talent tree' chains of abilities.. then you can emulate the typical 3x Druid alongside typical Cleric archtypes using the same mechanic.

I think the fact that both the Cleric and the Druid include so many different potentials that they should be wrapped into one simple mechanic. That would make it easier to design new flavours.. instead of doing a '101 Clerical Classes', you have something that flavors the single class through talent chains and something like spell spheres.

This is also cheaper for WoTC that trying to support every pantheon out there.

YMMV

Of course.. if they try this and the execution is horribly off

 

[Li Shenron]

But who made clerics and druids similar in mechanics? And was it really necessary for them to be?

The cleric is conceived as a "martial priest" since the early D&D years, and that implied medium BAB, full armor proficiencies, and d8 as HD.

But I see no reason for the druid to be the same. The 3.5 Druid could have had low BAB, no armor proficiencies, and d6 as HD, and it would not have been wrong (and neither weak). After all, he could have got the boost from shapeshifting, and when it comes to spells he's halfway between the cleric and the wizard.