"What's my motivation?" or weirdness in the Sunless Citadel...

[Altin]

Well, to be fair, the plot hook issue isn't unique to the Sunless Citadel. In fact, as I've been discovering recently, it is quite difficult to come up with unique 'canned' plot hooks (by canned I mean designed to fit any party rather than tied to particular characters). In general you find that motivation to go on any pre-fab adventure boils down to:

a) someone going missing/being kidnapped/being threatened and needing help,
b) a promise of economic benefit either in the form of a reward or treasure to be found whilst performing the task,
c) an assignment from some sort of concerned authority figure (usually a member of the local political, economic or religious organization)

Or a combination of the above. In other words, if one removes philanthropy, greed and duty from the equation it becomes quite tricky to justify a bunch of random people risking life and limb in the adventuring business. That said, players who create PCs unresponsive to at least one of those three things are perhaps being somewhat unnecessarily difficult.

Yours,
Altin

 

[Kichwas]

They're goblins, you're supposed to kill them, cut up the bodies, and take their homes and possessions.

That's what D&D is all about.

Stop asking questions and do the Lawful Good (tm) thing: go commit mass slaughter on the savage darkies.


Sunless Citadel does suffer from a problem of shallow motivations... It is a Dungeon Crawl (tm) after all, and when 3E came out -everyone- was saying the game going back to it's hack-roots.

 

[hong]

They're goblins, you're supposed to kill them, cut up the bodies, and take their homes and possessions.

That's what D&D is all about.

Stop asking questions and do the Lawful Good (tm) thing: go commit mass slaughter on the savage darkies.

Feeling a tad bitter, Arcady?

 

[Al'Kelhar]

... In general you find that motivation to go on any pre-fab adventure boils down to:

a) someone going missing/being kidnapped/being threatened and needing help,
b) a promise of economic benefit either in the form of a reward or treasure to be found whilst performing the task,
c) an assignment from some sort of concerned authority figure (usually a member of the local political, economic or religious organization)

Or a combination of the above. In other words, if one removes philanthropy, greed and duty from the equation it becomes quite tricky to justify a bunch of random people risking life and limb in the adventuring business. That said, players who create PCs unresponsive to at least one of those three things are perhaps being somewhat unnecessarily difficult.

I agree. In fact, I can't really think of why a character would be adventuring at all if they didn't have a moral obligation (duty to superior, relationship with person in need, to prevent destruction of the world, etc.) or an economic imperative (potential rewards are greater than risks, or needs cash for other ugent need) to do so. The character's "what the heck am I doing here" question should be turned back on the player. If the player can't figure it out for him/herself, he/she isn't participating very well in the gaming experience. (I have a gripe against players who expect the DM to do everything for them, including making up reasons why their character would participate in an adventure).

I'll be running the first session of a heavily modified Sunless Citadel this Friday night, in which two of the six characters have a moral duty to adventure - one to investigate the disappearance of another person who was investigating the source of the apples (IMC, oranges, in fact) at the behest of their patron, and one to track down and slay an evil creature which had been preying on the town, at the behest of the town's leader. What they find in the Citadel will, of course, then lead them into the next adventure, etc.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Shadowdancer]

Wizardru basically had the party in service to a Greyhawk noble. This made life a heck of a lot easier overall. He handed out missions for us (no dark strangers in inns) and could provide rewards as needed.

This is basically what we did when we ran through Sunless Citadel, and we are using this motivation source for all of the Adventure Path modules. It does work very well, especially if you can connect them all with another, larger story arc.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

This thread has been quite helpful, as I am planning on running the Sunless Citadel this weekend for a bunch of newbs. Thanks everyone for more plot-hooks than I could ever possibly use.

 

[Gizzard]

I am planning on running the Sunless Citadel this weekend for a bunch of newbs.

One thing to think about hookwise is that theres probably a cleaner hook that ties directly in to the climax of the adventure. Certainly, if there are PCs of a certain Class then they may have useful knowledge/info/experience about the finale. I think, after having played the module, that a hook like this would be the very best, probably seasoned with sprinkles of the "Apple" hook or the "missing party" hook.

Even dropping a hint somewhere about the finale as an adjunct to one of the standard hooks might pay off nicely if you dont have PCs of the required class. Perhaps an NPC in town with an interest in the subject.

 

[jester47]

One thing we are starting to see more of is mission based dungeon crawls. Back in the day it was the goal to go room to room to clear it of baddies. Typically the scouting mission turned into an assault and it was all over problem solved. Now it seems more people say yes there is a dungeon and you have to go into it and retrive x or talk to so and so.

I am thinking of one where the PCs have to go in and recover a person or object, but cannot be seen doing it, or it causes a problem elsewhere. (like there are negotiations going on and the presence of the PCs could jeapordise the negotiations)

Aaron.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I am thinking of one where the PCs have to go in and recover a person or object, but cannot be seen doing it, or it causes a problem elsewhere. (like there are negotiations going on and the presence of the PCs could jeapordise the negotiations)

Aaron.

I had considered running an entire campaign where "adventurers" were not well thought of, and the party travelled disguised as a circus...

kahuna burger

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

I had considered running an entire campaign where "adventurers" were not well thought of, and the party travelled disguised as a circus...

kahuna burger

We threatened our last DM that if she TPWed us, we'd all come back as bards and form an adventuring band.