What's Sci Fi Got that Fantasy Don't Got?

[ARandomGod]

You're asking the wrong question. It should be "What's fantasy have that Sci-Fi doesn't have".

And the answer to that is Magic. Unexplained, unexplainable. Sci-fi has "magic" too, but they make at least token explainations.

I answered first, and read other people's responses second (which I like to do). Seems like lots of other people see that too.

Another issue is "religion". Sci-fi in general ignores religion completely. Fantasy often comes up with other religions. Now, while this isn't always the case, it is generally the case. And religions hate competition... and (let's be honest), the majority of people in the world are pretty stupid, therefore the majority of people in any religion are stupid, and therefore they could see this as religious competition.

You can make the two genre's virtually inseperable, certainly. But for it to be "Sci-Fi" you have to have some token 'scientific' explanation for things. For fantasy it simply is.

Yep, that's pretty much it (but not all of it)! My parents have frequently told me "D&D is the Devil's game!". They've never played, nor even watched it, but they exercize EMP (Extra-Mental Perception, the ability to hold an opinion on something while simultaneously knowing nothing about it), and make such declarations.

Not that my "people are stupid" statement necessarily applies to people like these but.. well, yes actually it does. That's OK though, because this particular type of stupidity isn't always genetic!

Clerics and Druids who worship false gods is another. (See the first commandment.) As another dissuader once told me: "D&D is the greatest introduction to the occilt around!" And, indeed, it can be. There are any number of magical, mystical references in (A)D&D, which, if you believe the bible, can be seen as a very bad thing...

I always argue (debate) the exact opposite here. These things are supplied in a purely fictional way, and in such a light as to imply not only that bad is bad, but since they're fictional here, it also implies strongly that they're quite fictional elsewhere as well...

But I digress. Actually when I was young I found that the genre strongly enforced my own personal belief system (that of my parents, of course, as I was young). Clerics get prayers answered, my reasoning went... real world clerics probably do the same... they certainly make that claim, and since there's only ONE real world God. (I'm sure you can see how that would make prayer a much more powerful tool in a youth's head).

I can certainly understand why people with a literal view of the KJV (King James Version of the bible, for anyone who didn't know), such as I, might be concerned about some aspects of the game. It certainly disagrees with the biblical views of both Heaven and Hell, for instance!

I can *see* it. But only for people who don't understand (and won't listen to an explanation of) the concept of fiction, fantasy or otherwise. It doesn't disagree with the biblical version so much as it ignores that area entirely. It makes stuff up, because to do otherwise wouldn't really be fictional at all.

Apparently, your friend can't, or isn't willing to. He feels that that would be compromising. So support his decision, and play M&M with him, or something. Never encourage a man to do something that his conscience dictates that he shouldn't! Try to be understanding and supportive of your friend!

Agreed! Of course, I also support you being a little secretly condescending and "smarter than thou"... even "holier than thou", since you can understand that GOD and D&D aren't related at all.

But of course, let's not forget:

Yes, Yes it is. Some religious groups, lets call them Y groups (lol) see D&D as evil. I am sure they think they have good reasons for this. Its not really the point though. If this player is serious about recruiting people he needs to present a certain image that his church wants.

Like if your a car salemen you need to be clean cut and shaved with a tie. You might dispise ties, love your goatee and feel like Samson after his haircut when your mountain man haircut goes. Doesnt matter. Sometimes you do what you have to do. It sounds like your freind just made a hard choice about his priorities.

Really, regardless of his own personal viewpoints, other people have views as well. And whether we think they're silly or elightened, those viewpoints can affect us, and our relationships with those people. I once knew someone who lost a major client because he had D&d game books at his house and they were seen. Was that guy evil? A devil worshipper? Well, I honestly don't know. But I don't THINK he was, and he stated he wasn't... and I happen to know that he attends (or attened, this was a while ago) a Christian church on a regular basis. He'd simply never encountered that type of close-mindedness or predjudice on someone elses part before that. Now that he knows people like that are out there, he keeps his books where they can't be seen by people he doesn't know.

You've got to realize that some people are close minded, prone to pre-judgementalism... they do indeed judge a book by it's cover, and this cover has a demon on it! And if it's in your house, you must practically BE a demon! No questions asked, no explanations heard or considered.

 

[ARandomGod]

There are many Mormons that are active posters on these very message boards, and thus actively play D&D regularly. Tracy Hickman was an active Mormon when he worked at TSR and co-wrote the Dragonlance novels.

Mormons are not very much like your typical Revivalist christian group, in my experience. I've never met a Mormon who had a doctrinal problem with D&D.

Heheh... yea. The Mormon religion doesn't lend it'self to the type of close-mindedness that would be required to make such judgements about people.

Actually, one big difference between fantasy and Sci Fi is that Sci Fi tends to ignore religion as much as possible.

Hey! Cheater!! One of MY main points! Oh well, I suppose you did get there first. On an intellectual note, however, doesn't this make Sci-Fi more inherently "evil?"

 

[The Sigil]

Great post, Sigil!

I wish more people could distinguish between real and imaginary. I think, then, that we'd have fewer people angry about things like D&D and Harry Potter, and fewer people also slavishly devoted to Star Trek, Star Wars, &c. and upset that such things can't come to pass.

Thanks. Credit where credit is due, though, the original idea of different uses of evil in literature isn't mine. I just happen to like it and repeat it.

--The Sigil

 

[Sejs]

Guns, Science, and Moral Abiguity.

 

[Turjan]

Yeah, it's really a minor thing. But for some reason it really really bugs me. So much so that one of the things in the fantasy setting I'm working on is a sort of magical bath/shower left over from one of those ancient legendary socities that are always in fantasy settings.

[hijack] By the way, this is another example why D&D is no medieval game. People in the Middle Ages washed themselves and often visited the public bath house, a normal institution of a city, at least once a week. Journeymen even got the fee for the bath house as part of their wages . The dirty ages started with the early modern times . [/hijack]

Regarding the original question: Good authors ! *duck*

 

[MaxKaladin]

Hey! Cheater!! One of MY main points! Oh well, I suppose you did get there first. On an intellectual note, however, doesn't this make Sci-Fi more inherently "evil?"

I suppose it depends on the religion and the individual. Mostly, I think people just don't think about it. I think in the absence of any challenge to their religious beliefs, people won't think about whether the lack of any religion at all makes sci fi "evil".

 

[KenM]

One of my old gaming friends from way back had the source of the mana in his home brewed fantasy world a Hyperspace drive from a spaceship that crashed there ages ago.

 

[The Sigil]

One of my old gaming friends from way back had the source of the mana in his home brewed fantasy world a Hyperspace drive from a spaceship that crashed there ages ago.

Um... that wouldn't be anything like the "Nucleus of the Spheres" on ol' Mystara, would it?

--The Sigil

 

[genshou]

There are many Mormons that are active posters on these very message boards, and thus actively play D&D regularly. Tracy Hickman was an active Mormon when he worked at TSR and co-wrote the Dragonlance novels.

Mormons are not very much like your typical Revivalist christian group, in my experience. I've never met a Mormon who had a doctrinal problem with D&D.

I have–my parents, my bishops, my young men advisors... ignorance exists even in our church, I'm sorry to say.

But, it didn't stop me from playing D&D or attending church regularly, so I guess you could say that what didn't "kill" me made me stronger, aye?

 

[Desdichado]

I have–my parents, my bishops, my young men advisors... ignorance exists even in our church, I'm sorry to say.

Oh, I have no doubt. But that's most likely (I say as if I knew any of these people you're referring to) a case of latching on to rumors about D&D that have been floating around for years.

See, for my parents (and for my wife, for that matter) the potential problem with D&D isn't that it's evil, its that its potentially a time trap where I spend too much time and energy while neglecting more important things. Which, all things considered, is probably more a reflection on me than on D&D. Plus my wife thinks it seems pretty nerdy to tell her friends that I'm off playing D&D. Then again, my current group got it's start at church; my wife overheard two other members of our ward that we didn't really know well talking about D&D, and jumped in and said, "hey! my husband plays that too!" At one point, there were eight of us all from the same congregation playing D&D regularly. Sadly, due to move-outs and people getting into other hobbies, there's only three of us left that still do.

My dad was also pretty savvy, and ran the Special Collections Department at the Cushing Library of Texas A&M University--which has one of the premier science fiction and fantasy collections in the nation, I might add, so he knew a thing or two about it. He may have been aware of the various topless monsters and whatnot in some of the early books too. That's a more valid concern for Christian groups than "D&D = Occult and Satanic", IMO. Then again, those are versions of the game that have been out of print for some time, too.