What's so special about Forgotten Realms?

[JoeGKushner]

In terms of high level NPCs, let's look at it from another angle.

The FR setting has so many because it's so successful. Greyhawk hasn't seen novel publication in decades and it's got it's share of high level characters. Quasi Deities? WTF? If it was done up in novels, I have no doubt people would be noting the high amount of characters that were high powered.

 

[catsclaw227]

I hear this much from folks who do not understand the realms. It's simple the big E can not get involed in every little detail, even if he could then the wizards of Thay, or mansoon or gods alone knows who else start to play big time. It is like chess the pawns and small pieces can move around the board. Once the big boys come into play the gloves come off, no one wants that so that leaves the pc's

Besides, I figure that all those powerful NPCs were essentially in a Cold War situation. Sure, each of them could cause a lot of devastation to their enemies if they cut loose - but that would escalate things and provoke their enemies to bring devastation to regions and people they care about. So they engage in what are in effect proxy wars - with lower-level minions (including the player characters) as pawns. They can do things and go places without attracting as much attention - while still making a difference.

This is all well and good, but a couple of years ago, I asked a group of new players that I wanted to do a FR game and they brought up the uber NPC thing. I trotted out the explanation above, and was promptly told that they didn't want to play in a world where they were simply pawns in a chess game for big powerful NPCs. So we ran Savage Tide in Greyhawk.

I once DMed (or attempted for about 6 sessions) the realms right around the 3.5 revision and I had two players that knew way more about the FR than I did. Even though I explained that this would be my interpretation of the realms and that some of the novel canon and even the RPG canon may not be quite right. Some of the rumors and legends and stories were myth or false. That didn't seem to matter.... So yes, it was my game and I could run it that way, but there were too many different moments where I had to "argue" around a situation and the players were (understandably) frustrated because they didn't know what was canon and what wasn't.

I didn't have the time to become a FR expert. So that game went into the tank.

I like the 4e realms, almost as much as I liked the old greybox set. Even though the 3e FRCS was amazing from an information, layout and presentation standpoint, it just had too much muck attached to it for me to try to enjoy it. And when I did give it a go, it didn't seem to matter.

For me, the 4e FR treatment has given me a desire to run FR again. And yes, it is just as much the Forgotten Realms to me as it was in 1e.

It's kinda like saying that Europe just isn't Europe anymore because so much has happened in the past 200 years. Too many ESEs!!!1!!1! Euro2009 is teh suxxors! Euro1812 rulzz!!!! I gave Napoleon l33t power-ups like heroes feast and endure elements scrolls to survive in Russia.

 

[catsclaw227]

In terms of high level NPCs, let's look at it from another angle.

The FR setting has so many because it's so successful. Greyhawk hasn't seen novel publication in decades and it's got it's share of high level characters. Quasi Deities? WTF? If it was done up in novels, I have no doubt people would be noting the high amount of characters that were high powered.

Interesting, I didn't think of it that way, but yes novels can do that to a setting. But they didn't have to make each novel mean so much to the story in the RPG setting.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I once DMed (or attempted for about 6 sessions) the realms right around the 3.5 revision and I had two players that knew way more about the FR than I did. Even though I explained that this would be my interpretation of the realms and that some of the novel canon and even the RPG canon may not be quite right. Some of the rumors and legends and stories were myth or false. That didn't seem to matter.... So yes, it was my game and I could run it that way, but there were too many different moments where I had to "argue" around a situation and the players were (understandably) frustrated because they didn't know what was canon and what wasn't.

.

Sorry man but that's an issue with your players , Not the setting

 

[catsclaw227]

Sorry man but that's an issue with your players , Not the setting

But see, it's not that simple. They weren't bad players... they were both very knowledgeable about FR and some of the things I was doing was messing with their own personal verisimilitude (can I even use this word this way?) within the setting.

It's not a binary problem like you seem to think it is. If it was just my players, then why do I read about these same situations whenever this topic comes up?

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

But see, it's not that simple. They weren't bad players... they were both very knowledgeable about FR and some of the things I was doing was messing with their own personal verisimilitude (can I even use this word this way?) within the setting.

It's not a binary problem like you seem to think it is. If it was just my players, then why do I read about these same situations whenever this topic comes up?

Did not say it was just your players, but it is a player issue. How is this any different then say you ran an eberron game and a player had read say city of towers and argues with you over how an NPC acts or how a tower is built as it was not that way in the book?

It is the same issue, and it is a player issue not a setting issue. Any and every game you play you play it in the DM's version of that world. You as a player must know this and you can ask is this like in book x? But as as player you must know going in that anything you know can be wrong.

And then in comes down to meta game knowledge how the hell does the PC know what happened in 47 novels? At the lest it is meta gaming.

Nothing against your players but yes it is a player issue

 

[pawsplay]

Nothing against your players but yes it is a player issue

Agreed. If I'm running a historical WWII game and I claim the Battle of Midway was in 1943, the players can argue, but guess what? They are not running the game. I would find it difficult to sit down at a table where a player was going to say I couldn't mess with the Realms... I've played enough Star Wars to know not everyone can agree on just what happens on the screen.

 

[wingsandsword]

Here is what I think is so special about Forgotten Realms (pre 4e):

Among the people I game with, it is the standard D&D setting. Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Eberron, they all are D&D settings, but seem like "other" choices. To me, and my friends, the Realms is just the natural setting for D&D. (Yes, I know it wasn't the first, and Greyhawk references are in the core, I'm just talking about "feel" with this paragraph). When 3e was first announced and I first read of the previews for the Spell Domains mechanic for Clerics and that there would be deities in the PHB, my best friend's first question was: "So, what Domains will Lathander grant?"

I like the "Kitchen Sink" feel, it doesn't feel like one person's work (Yeah, it started with Greenwood, but how it's grown!), so it feels more natural and organic as it's grown and pieced together over the years. Some other settings are pretty monolithic in their style and flavor, but the Realms are all over. You've got your standard pseudo-medieval Tolkienish fantasy with Cormyr, Sembia and the Dalelands. You've got lands patterned on India (Durpar), Ancient Greece (Chessenta), Ancient Egypt (Mulhorrand), Babylon (Unther), Celtic lands (Moonshaes), Korea, China and Japan (the various nations of Kara Tur), Mongolia (Hordelands), North Africa (Calimshan), African Rainforests (Chult), Spain (Amn), the Middle East (Zakhara), piracy-era Caribbean (Sea of Fallen Stars) Central America (Maztica), frozen lands (Vaasa and the High Ice) with a significant list of purely fantastic high-magic lands of several styles (Thay, City of Shade, Halruaa), typical racial homelands the PC's expect (Lantan, Luiren, Cormanthyr & Evermeet, The Great Rift), and a huge city that would rival Imperial Rome (Waterdeep) and you could run a half-dozen campaigns in that city alone without ever really leaving. Pretty much any D&D character concept you could come up with could fit in somewhere on Abeir-Toril, and pretty much any adventure you'd want to run could be done somewhere. Saying "that doesn't really fit into the campaign world" is hard to say (but "that isn't the kind of thing I want in my campaign" is always DM's prerogative).

The Flavor! 2e was especially good with this, with the Volo's Guides, and Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue. Forgotten Realms books tend to be wonderfully immersive, things you can use to really feel like you're "in" the world and can understand the cultures and places and people. It feels more like a complete world and less like a created backdrop for adventuring.

The Pantheon. Personally, I always liked the Faerunian Pantheon as a set of D&D gods. They had the foibles and politics among them much like the Olympian deities, but had such wide variety and selection for players that there seemed like there was always some deity/faith that fit a character concept. The faiths and religions of Faerun were a lot of the appeal of the Realms to me.

The detail. I loved the detail of lore and setting information. Any town on the map I could point to I could probably pull up a map of, detailed information about, and probably lots of obscure minutiae. I never had the problem of players who tried to setting-lawyer me. All the people I ever played with seemed to understand that no one person will know all the setting, it doesn't matter if this town doesn't have a shrine to this deity like this book said it did, or that this NPC is secretly working for this organization even though they just proved he couldn't be, or that if they go to this obscure island and walk to this specific spot and dig 10 feet down they won't actually find the artifact that is buried there even though some book says it's supposed to be right there. I tried to always run the Realms in a way that was fun, and to try to not completely trample the setting (to maintain the shared-world feeling with the players), but to not let it hinder me either (to maintain my freedom as a DM). The detail is there so as a DM I have a vast well of ideas to draw from, not as shackles for the players to bind me with.

I could probably keep going, but these are the big reasons why I love the Realms.

 

[ashockney]

What's so special about the Forgotten Realms?

Wonder - the grey box and first supplements were full of wonder. The things covered in those books, compared to anything published to that date, were UNBELIVEABLE. Acquiring, reading, and absorbing these ideas was magical.

Discovery - Pages from the mages, Seven Swords, new spells and magic items, new realms, etc. The wonder went beyond one dimension, it was two dimensional. Once you found Elminster, you then found one tome upon his shelf, and had two pages of history built into that one tome. This content was deep and rich.

Epic Scope - I was fortunate enough to attend an introduction to the FR, before it's release with Jim Ward and Mike Dobson (I believe) at Neovention in 1987 or 1988. They took time to describe their first review of Ed's collection of maps. Years and years worth of detailed notes stashed in every nook and cranny all over his house, it was unlike anything they'd ever seen. Suffice it to say, that the caretakers of the realms since then have had no problem "filling in the blanks" on those maps.

Reach - With an expansive catalog of rpg products, spanning four editions, novels in the hundreds, computer games in the dozens, I would challenge that no game has reached so many people, and reached so deeply with many of it's fans.

History - And the newest addition to this list, is the deep, rich, and personal history that now exists for these Forgotten Realms. In my own personal experience, I can claim a history of over 12 Dungeons and Dragons campaigns, spread over 29 years, spanning from first to 31st level, in four editions of the game.

Thank you, Ed.

 

[TheSleepyKing]

I like the "Kitchen Sink" feel, it doesn't feel like one person's work (Yeah, it started with Greenwood, but how it's grown!), so it feels more natural and organic as it's grown and pieced together over the years. Some other settings are pretty monolithic in their style and flavor, but the Realms are all over. You've got your standard pseudo-medieval Tolkienish fantasy with Cormyr, Sembia and the Dalelands. You've got lands patterned on India (Durpar), Ancient Greece (Chessenta), Ancient Egypt (Mulhorrand), Babylon (Unther), Celtic lands (Moonshaes), Korea, China and Japan (the various nations of Kara Tur), Mongolia (Hordelands), North Africa (Calimshan), African Rainforests (Chult), Spain (Amn), the Middle East (Zakhara), piracy-era Caribbean (Sea of Fallen Stars) Central America (Maztica), frozen lands (Vaasa and the High Ice) with a significant list of purely fantastic high-magic lands of several styles (Thay, City of Shade, Halruaa), typical racial homelands the PC's expect (Lantan, Luiren, Cormanthyr & Evermeet, The Great Rift), and a huge city that would rival Imperial Rome (Waterdeep) and you could run a half-dozen campaigns in that city alone without ever really leaving. Pretty much any D&D character concept you could come up with could fit in somewhere on Abeir-Toril, and pretty much any adventure you'd want to run could be done somewhere. Saying "that doesn't really fit into the campaign world" is hard to say (but "that isn't the kind of thing I want in my campaign" is always DM's prerogative).

I agree, though I should note for the benefit of the OP that this is not true of the 4e Realms. Many of the real world analogues no longer exist and the world has been largely "genericised" to the default culture of D&D (vaguely medieval Europe). The 3e (and earlier) realms was the kitchen sink setting; 4e realms cleaves more closely to the default setting and culture after all the exotic nations were trashed by the Spellplague.