What's the difference between a 'hired' cohort and a cohort received from leadership?

[Zedicius]

Owkay, the whole mess starts in the dungeon master maniual under a section named 'friends'. Cohorts are described as companions or allies that can be follow the PC around by some mutual agreement, or companions that can simply be hired. It goes on to say that there is no limit on the amount of cohorts that can be employed. At the end, there's the bit on to the treasure and xp cost of said cohort.

A bit further the Leadership feat is described, which always mentions 'a cohort' which I reckon is why everywhere I look, people say leadership only grants a character one cohort.

Though, from what I understand and from what I've read on the web, the treasure and XP cost remains the same, wether the cohort has been 'hired' or acquired by the Leadership feat. It doesn't say that you need leadership to hire cohorts, it doesn't say that leadership reduces the cost of a single cohort... etc. Because you can 'hire' an unlimited amount of cohorts, one of the players of our group believes he can create as many cohorts as he can afford after taking the leadership feat. This just seems wrong somehow. The whole thing is just terribly confusing.

 

[Vespucci]

Well, I suggest banning Leadership for starters, as it's basically selling a feat.

That gets you out of the dangerous realm of player entitlement. The player is correct that they can attempt to hire as many cohorts they can afford, but if a character is throwing gold about, they will attract con men and sycophants as well as able adventurers. A discerning eye can probably weed out the latter without too much trouble (though the character intends to hire thirty cohorts in a week, they're hardly going for in-depth interviewing). Even leaving out this sort of ratbag refereeing, it's perfectly legitimate to say, "you can't find anyone else willing to join your reckless band of thrill-seekers".

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Sounds to me that the difference is what sort of loyalty is secured.

IMHO, if the DM were to roleplay how one of my hired cohorts has betrayed me for his own profitable, backstabbing desires, I could write that off in my own mind as a creative plot hook.

If the DM had my cohort that I gained from the Leadership feat betray me for any reason other than my own failings morally or unreasonable neglect/endangerment of that cohort, I'd be kinda pissed off.

I'm not drawing from any RAW when saying any of this, only giving my personal understanding.

 

[Zedicius]

Well, all I can really say is that there appears to be a difference between a 'hired' cohort and a cohort gained from the leadership feat. The book just fails to mention what the difference actually is...

 

[FoxWander]

Technically there's no such thing as a "hired" cohort (or followers), they can only be gained via the Leadership feat. Read the Attracting Cohorts section of the DMG, p. 106. The first sentence is the relevant bit.

A character of 6th level or higher can start attracting cohorts (see page 104) and followers (see page 105) by taking the Leadership feat...

Underlining added for emphasis. The Cohorts bit on page 104 is simply describing cohorts, how they act and they're effects in game. Even though it mentions that they "are hired by or seek out a PC" you only actually get one by taking the feat. Which is spelled out by the underlined bits in the quote above. That the feat is required to have these NPCs is further backed up on pg. 105 under Replacing Cohorts and Followers. There it mentions that one can replace them "according to his current Leadership score"- and you have to have the feat to have a Leadership score.

Any NPC that is simply hired by the PCs is just that- a hireling. Hirelings may be the same, stat-wise, as cohorts but the similarities end there. Hirelings are only as loyal as they're paycheck. [-]Note that they are the only ones in that section of the DMG that are described as potentially turning on the PCs.[/-] Edit- I read a bit more and found that mistreated cohorts are specifically mentioned as possible revenge seekers as well.

 

[Zedicius]

Right, so I reckon that means the other player was correct in assuming he can have as many cohorts as he can afford to have.

Hmm, then I wonder why there are threads around that talk about taking the leadership feat multiple times for multiple cohorts... oh well.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Right, so I reckon that means the other player was correct in assuming he can have as many cohorts as he can afford to have.

Those aren't cohorts. IMO, Those would be hirelings.

 

[irdeggman]

I echo Eric Anondson - those are "hirelings" not cohorts.

What FoxWander said is correct.

In D&D (3.5) a cohort can only be gained by taking the leadership feat.

A hireling is any NPC that the PC "hires" straight out. Hirelings may be any level, as determined by the DM.

A cohort has "special" rules. Cohorts have a level restriction that is tied into the "leader's: level. They get a share of the treasure and xp equal to 1/2 what their "leader" gets. They may have "special" deals worked out with the PC (this is up to the DM and how he introduces the cohort into the game) that might entail getting "paid".

Followers, hirelings and allies are not controlled by the PC.

Cohorts are.

Followers and hireling do not gain xp.

Allies gain a full share (functioning as additional party members when adventuring).

Cohorts get 1/2 the xp of their leader and do not count as party memebers when determining xp awards for the party.

 

[FoxWander]

Right, so I reckon that means the other player was correct in assuming he can have as many cohorts as he can afford to have.

Hmm, then I wonder why there are threads around that talk about taking the leadership feat multiple times for multiple cohorts... oh well.

As I read it, technically yes, a PC can have multiple cohorts (more on this below) if he has the Leadership feat- and each of his cohorts could be entitled to 1/2 share of the party's treasure- something the rest of the PCs might have a problem with.

As for the multipleness of cohorts (something probably worthy of a thread of its own)...
Most threads seem to think there's a limit of ONE cohort because the Leadership feat describes attracting A cohort a few times and people take that "a" to mean singular cohort rather than just the indefinite article "a" meaning any particular cohort. However, as this is not the majority view, I should point out that there are several sections which explicitly allow for multiple cohorts.

1) The Benefits section of the feat (which actually defines what the feat does) says it "enables the character to attract loyal companions and devoted followers"- note the plural "companions" referring to the cohort part of the feat.

2) The Cohorts section on page 104 on discussing limits on class, race, and gender of cohorts, also says " nor limits to the number of cohorts who can be employed by a character." Again- plural cohorts for a singular character. (Oops, it also mentions in the next sentence that mistreated cohorts may seek revenge on PCs- better edit what I said in my previous post.)

3) Speaking of my previous post, the part I quoted also mentions a singular character attracting multiple cohorts.


In the end it's a DM call on how many cohorts a single PC can have, or even if the Leadership feat is allowed at all (it's in the DMG and not the PHB for a reason), but the RAW don't give a limit and seem to explicitly allow for more than one.

 

[Pergentile]

Leadership - Cohort is a Player controlled Character
Anything else - Cohort is an NPC, and so is controlled by the DM.