What's the difference between a 'hired' cohort and a cohort received from leadership?

[Sorrowdusk]

Leadership has the dubious honor of being the one feat in 3e that I eventually banned.

It is SO MUCH BETTER than any other single non-epic feat. A well-made support cohort 2 levels lower than my pc? Hell yeah! Oh, and an extra turn every round... further slowing (high-level) combat to a crawl... ugh.

That said, I always thought references to multiple cohorts were referring to "you lost one, now here's another to replace him" situations. I would absolutely NOT allow multiple cohorts without multiple Leadership feats.

SRSLY, imagine a summoning-mad druid with a summoning-mad cohort... suddenly one player has like eight turns a round. I'm walking to the store (four miles away) and back five times before it's my turn again. Now give that player multiple cohorts, and everyone else might as well just go home.

Yes but as I understand it, that 2 lvls is only UP TO two levels below.
The DM decides just how high a lvl cohort you ACTUALLY attract, and there is no guarentee you will attract the most powerful one you could have.

 

[Pergentile]

The PHB has leadership in it?! SINCE WHEN?!
It even has notes on cohorts?
Crazy, I though that was the DMG.
Thanks for the tip Elf_Witch.

 

[irdeggman]

The PHB does not have the leadership feat in it. It only appears in the DMG (extra emphasis on why it is an "optional" feat).

It does, however appear in the SRD and there is none of the "warning" text from the DMG nor info about the DM creating the cohort. This is one of the problems of relying on the SRD as the source of rules for D&D. It is real handy, but incomplete and does not contain the context that the hard cover books do.

 

[Ranger19k]

The PHB has leadership in it?!

Yes it does. Try looking at page 97, under feats, cleverly hidden under the listing of "L" - leadership.

SINCE WHEN?!

Well, my publication date is July 2003, so I'm going to go with then.

It even has notes on cohorts?
Crazy, I though that was the DMG.
Thanks for the tip Elf_Witch.

Look, the details for the feat are in the DMG, but the basic feat outline is certainly listed in the PH. That is clearly the part that Elf-Witch was referencing.

If you can not refrain from being unnecessarily sarcastic and rude about it, you might want to at least be correct.

 

[Rel]

The PHB has leadership in it?! SINCE WHEN?!
It even has notes on cohorts?
Crazy, I though that was the DMG.
Thanks for the tip Elf_Witch.

Be a shame to have to ban you on my birthday.

 

[irdeggman]

Yes it does. Try looking at page 97, under feats, cleverly hidden under the listing of "L" - leadership.



Look, the details for the feat are in the DMG, but the basic feat outline is certainly listed in the PH. That is clearly the part that Elf-Witch was referencing.

Oops - you are right it is listed in the PHB but it does say. . . .

"Special: Check with your DM before selecting this feat, and work
with your DM to determine an appropriate cohort and followers for
your character (the Dungeon Master’s Guide has more information on
cohorts and followers)."

3.0 specifically said (in the PHB) to see the DMG for the feat - they just added a little bit more info in 3.5 but still it is necessary to go to the DMG for the details and how to use it.

 

[Pergentile]

I wasn't being sarcastic. Please don't make assumptions when asking is easy to do. I regret that what I have written has meaning that I am not aware of. I apologize for not knowing the eccentricities of language in the regions everyone else lives in.

Aaaaw, no more red text. D=

 

[Elf Witch]

Oops - you are right it is listed in the PHB but it does say. . . .

"Special: Check with your DM before selecting this feat, and work
with your DM to determine an appropriate cohort and followers for
your character (the Dungeon Master’s Guide has more information on
cohorts and followers)."

3.0 specifically said (in the PHB) to see the DMG for the feat - they just added a little bit more info in 3.5 but still it is necessary to go to the DMG for the details and how to use it.

It has been awhile since I looked at the feat. I didn't remember the added check with your DM speech. Which is an improvement over the 3.0 version.

 

[airwalkrr]

A hireling, a cohort, and a follower are different things.

Hireling: An NPC who follows the PC around as long as the PC pays him/her a mutually agreed upon wage. The DM sets the wage the hireling is willing to accept, generally using the DMG as a guideline. Hirelings are generally also under DM control, or in my games, at least I retain veto power over any hireling actions that I deem foolhardy. Hirelings do not earn XP.

Cohort: A loyal character who follows a PC with the Leadership feat around for no pay but receives XP as a fraction of his/her leader's XP. Cohorts also generally insist on a share of treasure, even if it's only a half share. Cohorts are generally under the complete control of the PC (at least that's the way I've seen them in all cases I know of, which is dozens of different groups including the rules in official RPGA campaigns).

Follower: An NPC who follows a PC with the Leadership feat around for no pay and does not receive XP. Followers may or may not be under the direct control of the leader, but in most cases I have seen them run this way.

The main difference between a hireling and a cohort or follower is that a hireling is paid, while a cohort or follower is not. All three probably expect some share of treasure earned however. Only a cohort gets XP. Also, only a cohort is specifically described as being under the direct control of the PC with Leadership; it's like having a second, less-powerful character to play.

 

[irdeggman]

It has been awhile since I looked at the feat. I didn't remember the added check with your DM speech. Which is an improvement over the 3.0 version.

I'm not so sure.

In 3.0 the PHB said:

LEADERSHIP [General]
Leadership is described in the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide.

The feat in the DMG contains the same warning about having teh DM disallowing the feat.

But since there is nothing in the PHB - it forces you to go to the DMG, there is clearly no misconception about whether or not the DM can allow or disallow the feat, at least IMO.