What's the hardest attribute to effectively role-play?

[Hriston]

I said more one than the other. That's not a binary.

My dictionary says a binary is "something having two parts". What definition were you using?

 

[Micah Sweet]

My dictionary says a binary is "something having two parts". What definition were you using?

Not having any space in between.

 

[Hriston]

Not having any space in between.

Ah, okay. Yes, dividing RPGing into "roleplaying" and "gaming" seems, to me, to be setting up a dichotomy. When I pointed out how roleplaying is fully integrated into the game and, thus, not really dichotomous in that they can't be separated within the context of an RPG (i.e. when you are roleplaying, you are playing the game and vice versa), you seemed to contrast that with roleplaying that is focused on setting exploration, as if it was something different from what I was talking about, i.e. not an interaction with the game, which is totally possible. Roleplaying can occur outside of games just like games can occur outside of roleplaying, so I gave my best guess as to what I thought you were talking about might look like. Apparently, you were just taking the opportunity to make your preference for setting exploration known, but I'm not sure why you then went on to contrast that with "engaging strictly as a game" unless you were trying to set up another dichotomy between what you prefer and what you don't. Again, I'm at a loss as to how one can play an RPG and not engage with it "as a game". I realize you used the word strictly, but I don't understand what else you think is going on that you're saying is not a game.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Ah, okay. Yes, dividing RPGing into "roleplaying" and "gaming" seems, to me, to be setting up a dichotomy. When I pointed out how roleplaying is fully integrated into the game and, thus, not really dichotomous in that they can't be separated within the context of an RPG (i.e. when you are roleplaying, you are playing the game and vice versa), you seemed to contrast that with roleplaying that is focused on setting exploration, as if it was something different from what I was talking about, i.e. not an interaction with the game, which is totally possible. Roleplaying can occur outside of games just like games can occur outside of roleplaying, so I gave my best guess as to what I thought you were talking about might look like. Apparently, you were just taking the opportunity to make your preference for setting exploration known, but I'm not sure why you then went on to contrast that with "engaging strictly as a game" unless you were trying to set up another dichotomy between what you prefer and what you don't. Again, I'm at a loss as to how one can play an RPG and not engage with it "as a game". I realize you used the word strictly, but I don't understand what else you think is going on that you're saying is not a game.

Basically I see mechanics as having their best use being modeling the material trappings of the setting and how they interact, and have little use for "game" outside of that, beyond what is practically necessary to play.

 

[Maxperson]

You put this in TTRPG General but it probably belongs in one of the D&D areas. I think the most difficult to effectively roleplay is Wisdom. Wisdom governs how perceptive your character is at understanding their environment as well as the people they interact with. It's the person with a high Wisdom who looks at the man with calloused hands and ink stains who will know he used to be a laborer but now works a white collar job. It's hard to roleplay because the DM has to provide you with enough detail for you to know such things.

Wisdom or Charisma. Both are very hard to roleplay if you don't already have personally have them.

 

[Piperken]

I think the numbers are just shorthand for descriptors and they really should mean something.

For instance a Dextrous character might move with fluidity, skipping through a crowd like a bird, whereas a low dex character, might stumble through, being pushed and maneuvered around as the crowd moves.

A high strength character might plough through the crowd, pushing people and obstacles aside as the move steadily towards their destination. A low strength character would find themselves at the mercy of the crowd, unable to get through the churn of bodies without aid.

A High Wisdom character might look about, alert to the motions of the crowd around them, seeking out gaps and openings to move through as they occur. A low wisdom character looks at the crowd with alarm, unsure of how to get through.

I like to think about what adjectives and verbs might fit with each Attribute and how they can inform the RP

What's salient in this example (relying on a character's ability score or appropriate skill) is that it can also provide the GM guidance on how to frame suggestions, if the player asks for advice.

Depending on the character and what means available to them they pick, the kinds of challenges and difficulty in navigating the crowd example above will differ.

 

[Bill Zebub]

They are all impossible to roleplay in ways that satisfy all the definitions of roleplaying that get tossed around on Enworld.

 

[Hriston]

Basically I see mechanics as having their best use being modeling the material trappings of the setting and how they interact, and have little use for "game" outside of that, beyond what is practically necessary to play.

I would venture to guess this is because you elevate setting exploration (i.e. imagining and "interacting with" the setting) above other priorities and interests people might have when playing RPGs. For example and to get back to the OP's topic, ability scores are a venue for engaging with the character as an aspect of setting, so your roleplaying of the character is an expression (in part) of what their ability scores reveal to you about the setting. Is that about right?

Where I would differ with that is that my own preference as a player is to roleplay my character from its "driver's seat", regarding its ability scores and other mechanics on the sheet as downstream from my decision making. Of course I consider my character's capabilities when assessing risk and possible courses of action, but ultimately I, the player, am fully in charge and responsible for my character's decisions. I would regard an expectation to portray an ability score as an intrusive, burdensome, and ill-defined removal of my agency -- a railroad. Like I said up-thread, I wouldn't play in such a game.

Now, I actually very much like verbal cues such as 5.0/1E's personality traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws, especially if the DM is onboard with awarding Inspiration. I also use a "high concept" composed of race, class, and alignment when thinking about my character's identity, so I'm not completely averse to elements that are somewhat prescriptive of roleplaying. I like when they are prompts that can affect my decision making rather than some perhaps vaguely defined quality of the character, like an ability score, I'm expected to portray.

My priority, then, which guides these preferences, is for gameplay to focus on situations presented by the GM and for the interface to be relatively thin between myself, as player, and those situations. Whether it's a challenge to my character to overcome the situation or to myself to remain true to my character in the face of adversity, it's my decisions as a player that are being tested. Filtering those decisions through my character's ability scores would remove the accountability I value.

 

[Voadam]

In most editions of D&D the attributes are composite so there is a lot of ways to by the book RAW portray the same high or low score. A high wisdom could mean perceptive but foolish or the inverse.

In a bunch editions where appearance is part of charisma Cyrano can be low average or high charisma with his combination of bad looks and high persuasiveness.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would venture to guess this is because you elevate setting exploration (i.e. imagining and "interacting with" the setting) above other priorities and interests people might have when playing RPGs. For example and to get back to the OP's topic, ability scores are a venue for engaging with the character as an aspect of setting, so your roleplaying of the character is an expression (in part) of what their ability scores reveal to you about the setting. Is that about right?

You are correct. The setting and interacting with it, whether through your PC as a Player or through everything else as a GM, is my top priority as a Player, GM, or designer. It is my primary reason to engage in the hobby.